Proposed Web site redesign (beta)

[djgoku]

I wouldn't mind stepping in for Steven. Standards are the biggest
thing that seems  to be a key point in why not to change to a forums
like page. I wouldn't mind learning and possibly implementing a
replacement site. If not a new face adding to the old.

Jonathan


On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:25:48 -0600, Steven Hildreth
<sphildreth at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow am I ever sorry I brought it up. In my opinion, its now very
> obvious why the kclug site is static and visually archaic.
> 
> The window of opportunity I had for involvement has passed, therefore
> I withdrawal my contribution and respectfully decline any future
> involvement. I have several large projects starting this week and will
> be unable to contribute to this specific project - as I feel unless
> either someone concedes acceptance or someone mandates the acceptable
> minimal standards compliance this argument will continue until someone
> dies of exhaustion.
> 
> Good luck, and I regret I could not make a positive change in the
> overall appearance of the KCLUG presentation.
> 
> Regards,
> Steven
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 22:20:43 -0600, Jason Clinton <me at jasonclinton.com> wrote:
> > Gerald Combs wrote:
> > > OK, let me rephrase the question.  What tenet of semantic design
> > > precludes the use of tables for general layout?
> > >
> > > Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I really want to know.  Googling has only
> > > turned up pages that tell you _not_ to use tables, without really
> > > explaining _why_.
> >
> > Tables are designed for use in displaying _tabular_ data -- such as one
> > might use a spreadsheet or a chart for. For instance, a two-axis value
> > chart. The existence of tags such as the <th> gives one an insight in to
> > the designer's intent here.
> >
> > In semantic design, the desire is to maintain the /meaning/ of the page
> > even when viewed without style. That is, when it is serialized. When a
> > table that doesn't have tabular data in it is serialized it _may_ happen
> > to be serialized in such a way that it is meaningful, but the vast
> > majority of times it will be serialized in a manner which is neither
> > structured nor meaningful.
> >
> > For instance, consider ethereal.com as it is now:
> >
> > -------8<--------------------------------------------------------------
> > Ethereal
> >
> > The world's most popular network protocol analyzer
> >
> >     Search:
> >     ____________
> >     [go-button.gif]-Submit
> >     Mirrors:
> >     [Choose Wisely] Go
> >
> >     Home | Introduction | Download | Documentation | Lists | FAQ |
> >     Development | Wiki
> >
> >     Latest Release: 0.10.7
> >
> > Resources
> >
> >     Introduction
> >     Download
> >     Documentation
> >     Mailing Lists
> >     FAQs
> >     Development
> >     News
> >     Advisories
> >     Publications
> >     Search
> >     Wiki
> >
> >     Main site hosted by
> >
> >     Network Integration Services, Inc.
> >
> > Powerful Multi-Platform Analysis
> >
> >     Ethereal is used by network professionals around the world for
> >     troubleshooting, analysis, software and protocol development, and
> >     education. It has all of the standard features you would expect in a
> > -------8<--------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Now, a couple of thoughts. You've placed the things you see before your
> > content "Powerful Multi-Platform Analysis" there because they make sense
> > in your visual layout; rendered above, though, not so much. For
> > instance, if I were looking at this on an 16-line cell phone, I'd see
> > three pages of data before I got to the main content area every time I
> > opened a page in the site.
> >
> > If you were concerned with the cell phone user's experience on your site
> > (I know it probably doesn't really matter all that much for
> > ethereal.com) then you might consider moving the auxiliary things like
> > the mirrors list and the 'hosted by' message to the end of the page. You
> > would also move the expanded resources list to the end rather than
> > repeating it immediately after the short version.
> >
> > These are things that you don't think about if you do table layout
> > because you only see the significance of the data as it relates to its
> > visual position on the page. The mirrors list, the hosted by message,
> > the repeated link information are all well-placed visually because they
> > are off-center. The main content area draws the focus in the visual
> > layout and the other stuff 'surrounds' it providing for context and
> > additional information. The same ideas you used for the visual version
> > can be applied to the serialized version.
> >
> > In short, the design goal is: short header (with skip links) followed by
> > the content (in a meaningful outline form) followed by supporting links
> > and resources (in outline form).
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Kclug mailing list
> > Kclug at kclug.org
> > http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Kclug mailing list
> Kclug at kclug.org
> http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug
> 


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