Mainstream . . . (LONG)

[Brian Densmore]

Brad,

   Nothing wrong with Linux. I never had a problem with 3c509 cards. If
yours aren't working then your configuring them wrong. True some of the
older ones have to be set initially from a dos 3Com driver diskette that
should have come with it. I have 3c509's and 3c590s (Vortex) and they all
are recognized at boot. Secondly, you should never have to mess with
creating /dev paths unless you're doing some serious system hacking, the
second harddrive should be /dev/hdb if ide or /dev/scd1 (this can vary
somewhat, but will never be /dev/drive[anything]). I think you should read
some introductory material on Linux. You are doing a lot of very bad things,
like putting source code for a particular driver in directories with object
libraries. You should try this sometime:
    install sourcecode, designed to be installed in its own directory, in
the Windows
    or Windows system directory and then do a build all in VC++.
    Congratulations you have just deleted the 
    Windows operating system!
Linux is a robust, stable OS. Not without bugs, none are - not even MAC.
But, any system is susceptible to abuse. You have definitely done some bad
things, like pulling down all the latest and greatest versions of the
software. You need to check compatibilities first. A partitioning program?
What's wrong with using fdisk? I have a super-powerful, super fast server
running on the internet it looks like this:
   1) Pentium (not II not III) 166MHz
   /w 48 MB RAM
   1) 1.2GB HD
   1) .8GB HD
   1) customized proprietary ATAPI CDROM (Acer system BIOS does some funky
stuff there, but it
	 works as long as you don't try to boot from it) 
   1) 3c590 (vortex)
   Apache 1.3.14
   Mandrake 2.2.14 kernel
   Sendmail
   MySql
   PHP 4
   bind 8.9.3 ( I think pulled down and compiled 1/27/00 security update
release)
   NeoMail
Sorry if I seem to be overly critical, I don't mean to be. I am still rather
new at Linux myself and frequently run up against walls trying to do
something. I try not to hack the system too much because like the saying
goes:
   "The great thing about C is you can do almost anything with it. The
terrible thing about C is  you can do just about anything with it". Ditto
that with Linux. You know there are some configuration tools written for
Linux, they are very useful for getting things setup right. Like Linuxconf &
DrakeConf (for Mandrake).

Best Regards,
Brian

Brian Densmore <mailto:DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com>  

 
Associate 
Computech Business Solutions <http://www.ctbsonline.com>  
voice: (816) 880-0988
fax: (816) 880-0998
:-{)> 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bradley Miller [mailto:bradmiller at dslonramp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:52 PM
> To: kclug at kclug.org
> Subject: Mainstream . . . (LONG)
> 
> 
> The real reason Linux will never be mainstream . . . 
> 
> BECAUSE NOBODY CAN AFFORD TO SUPPORT IT!
> 
> Harsh you say?   Well, let me share with you some recent 
> experiences.   I
> decided to update my antiquated Linux server and put the latest
> MySQL/PHP/Apache on it.   I've been meaning to put a bigger 
> drive in it and
> actually did install the drive.  I tested (I thought I did at 
> least) and
> everything seemed ok.   Little did I know that even though I thought I
> followed the directions very closely, I had instead made just 
> a /dev/drive2
> on my local drive and it wasn't mounted to the proper 
> harddrive physically
> in my PC.   One thing let to another and I eventually got my 
> harddrive in
> and moved some files around to make space.   Just as the last 
> of the PHP4
> files was installing (or "making") the thing blew up and 
> needed more room.
> I was about at wits end and decided I'd go for broke and repartion my
> meager drive and give myself some more room on /usr.  I had 
> moved /home to
> my 2nd drive - a 2 gig that was sitting around gathering 
> dust.   This left
> me with a whopping 3 gig system . . . but since it's a test 
> box it serves
> my purposes.
> 
> I found a partitioning program that would do what I think I 
> wanted it to
> do.   There were some nasty things to get around, but I had 
> confidence in
> what I was reading.  Surely this would be a piece of cake.   Well, the
> first ominous sign was the partitioning program needed 
> another program to
> run.  Off I went scurrying around on the web to find what 
> software I needed
> to install that portion of the system.  Then once I had that piece I
> started running into the full harddrive causing problems 
> again.   After
> some more thrashing I had moved enough files and followed all the
> instructions to where I might be able to actually finish my 
> PHP4 install.
> Then disaster struck, because my drive that I partitioned 
> started throwing
> errors right off the bat for files that were missing.   I was 
> able to get
> to a prompt and login in, but the system was completely and utterly
> pooched.  (That's got to be a technical term . . . .)   I 
> couldn't even run
> the partition program because of its dependencies.
> 
> Ok - I have nothing better to do . . . I'll just grab a CD 
> and reinstall
> the OS.   After about 30 minutes I had a nice fresh system.   
> I downloaded
> all the latest and greatest files again and started to work.  
>   Well, now
> I've got a real mess . . . I've got the Apache install that 
> the CD (Redhat
> 6.2) installed . . . and then my new latest and greatest 
> version.   I've
> also got hooks for PHP3 in there, but it's still not running 
> PHP of any
> flavor . . . and MySQL isn't exactly running correctly 
> either.   It seems
> that since it's on my 2nd drive, that it's not happy for some 
> reason or
> another.
> 
> At this point I'm about frazzed on working on Linux systems, 
> but I decide,
> maybe I'll start off with something simpler.  I grab and old 
> box that I've
> been playing with on and off for a wihle.   I rip out the 
> 3Com 3c509 card
> that I've been battling for ever.   I've put those cheap $5 bargain
> basement cards in other systems and never had a problem, but now I'm
> looking for any battle to conquer.    I stop by Best Buy and 
> grab a new $20
> Netgear 10/100 PCI Ethernet Network card . . . a FA-311.   I 
> go to install
> it and there are no instructions on how to install the card 
> in a Linux box.
>   I had bought it because the box said it was Linux 
> compatible.   (Just
> look for that feature on other cards . . . . jeez!)    Ok - 
> if all else
> fails . . . go to the web site.   Well the web site explains how the
> Help.exe file on the diskette is wrong . . .
> (http://www.netgear-support.com/ts/pwtkbgetsolution.cfm?&id=N0
> 1254&kbase=Sup
> port&incident=) and that there are different files to use.   
> Ok, I'll bite
> . . . at least I didn't try to use the instructions on the 
> diskette . . .
> like I was going to put it in my NT box just to poke around 
> on the diskette
> that I theoretically wouldn't need.   I download the files and after
> rifling through diskettes, I manage to get the files over to 
> my Linux box.
> (This will hopefully play MP3's in the future . . . if it 
> doesn't end up
> being a huge doorstop.)    I glance over the files . . . a fa311.h,
> fa311.c, fa311.o, and MAKEFILE.  The web site says the make file does
> something, so I copy the files over to my kernel modules 
> directory (logical
> since that's where it's going to be running from) and file off the
> makefile.    Well, that didn't get me far . . . the file just said
> something about missing files and never did compile squat.  
> Oh yea - this
> machine has even less harddrive than the other, so it doesn't have a C
> compiler on it.   As I browse the disk again, I notice all my 
> module files
> are now missing . . . . . what the ????    Let's look here in 
> the makefile:
>  
> all: fa311.o
> 
> fa311.o: fa311.c fa311.h
> 	gcc -D__KERNEL__ -DMODULE -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -O 
> -c fa311.c
> 
> clean: 
> 	rm -f core *.o
> 
> My, isn't that convenient . . . . it wiped all the *.o files 
> off wherever
> it was sitting.    Oh well . . . I didn't have anything better to do I
> suppose.
> 
> So, I go over to another Linux box . . . one that runs and I 
> don't f***
> with . . . and I decide to compile the program.    I compile 
> it and then
> copy the fa311.o file over to the Linux box and run netconf 
> to see if I
> can't get my network card to light off.    Well, after all 
> the effort and
> thrashing, I'm still back at square one.   I have a box that 
> can't talk to
> anything . . . other than sneakernet (aka floppies).
> 
> What have we learned so far?    Nobody hardly supports Linux 
> and the ones
> who do have tripped over themselves so badly that it's really fouling
> things up.    How was I supposed to get on the net and get 
> this corrected
> info if I didn't have another functioning computer nearby?   
> The files that
> Netgear had on their site were in zip format . . . if I did 
> have another
> Linux box I only hope that I would have been able to get them down and
> going.   Is there anyway that someone could be totally self 
> sufficient and
> not need a 10 week course in Linux ins and outs to get a PC 
> running from
> scratch?   I would venture to say that if I tossed a Windows 
> CD in this PC
> that I could probably have it up and running in less time 
> that it took to
> gyrate around getting a network card to run in Linux.
> 
> Does this totally put me off of Linux?  No - I've got a perfectly good
> router that runs those 3c509 cards and handles all my network traffic.
> Likewise I run other Linux servers and workstations and have 
> no problems .
> . . but if you think I'm going to give up any of my non-Linux 
> based PC's
> anytime soon, your nuts.   I don't think anyone can quit cold 
> turkey and
> switch over - certainly not now nor anytime soon.   I'll 
> point out this
> thing to those wanting to rant and rave over the wonderful 
> things a Linux
> system does; Mac owners have the same feelings.   There is a 
> good reason
> people have Mac's - they're relatively worry free.  Yea, you can't
> configure this or do that . . . but you don't have to 
> download updates,
> drivers, or stand on your head to get one to work right out 
> of the box.   A
> big part of that is because they are completely proprietary . 
> . . it's easy
> for an OS to cope with something when you know exactly all the known
> quanities on hardware and such.   The real issue that Mac 
> people face, (and
> likewise Linux people) is that they think they can be and 
> island and never
> need a PC/Windows solutionfor anything.   It's not going to 
> happen any time
> soon . . . and with experiences like I've had . . . your 
> going to have a
> hard sell to those people who are used to the MS ways.
> 
> 
> -- Bradley Miller
> 
> 
> majordomo at kclug.org
>