School using Linux

[Leo J Mauler]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:47:53 -0600 Karl Schmidt <karl at xtronics.com>
writes:
> One of my customers was asking about burning 
> an eprom for a net card  - I asked him what he
> was up to and it turns out he is setting computers 
> up to boot off the net for an Oregon school system.
> 
> Just to get current with M$ for the current year 
> was going to cost over $20,000 

I remember this story.  M$ went to the Oregon school system (among
others) and told them, "either prove to us that not a single one of your
M$ Windoze-equipped computers is running pirated Windows OS and/or
pirated Windows software, or pay us up front for new licenses to all of
your Windows OSes and Windows software."

Since no school possibly has the money to test all of its computers for
pirated software, the choice is either pay M$ their
extor^H^H^H^H^Hrightful license fees (such as the aforementioned $20,000+
in extor^H^H^H^H^Hrightful license fees), or switch to another OS. 

> so he is setting up a bunch of thin clients using this:
> 
> http://k12ltsp.org/
> 
> He says when everyone starts up at the same time 
> the server boggs down a bunch but once everyone 
> is up he says it works fine. He is getting great 
> feedback from the administration.
> 
> He says it is based on Redhat and the latest is on 
> the fedora core - He wished it was based on debian.

I wish I could walk into some local K-12 classroom using Linux and
observe what they are doing with Linux in the classroom.  I'd like to get
into this area of Linux administration.

I might even drive as far as St. Louis to see such a classroom, or
Wichita, KS in the other direction, or even the same distance south (even
as far as Tulsa, OK).

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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 03:03:10 -0600 Shayne Patton <linuxh3d at comcast.net>
writes:
> Leo J Mauler wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:49:19 -0600 "Michael Shaw" 
> <dbwizzard at kc.rr.com>
> >writes:
> >
> >>> Of course, companies outsourcing programming 
> >>> to India are losing fast too.  Re-integration of 
> >>> programming code written by an individual who 
> >>> has problems with the English language can cost 
> >>> almost as much as twice the cost savings of hiring 
> >>> lower paid Indian programmers.  For starters all 
> >>> the documentation, if there is any, is more likely 
> >>> to be in a different language than English.
> >
> >[snip!]
> >
> >>In response to these statements I say:
> >>
> >> 1)   The argument about documentation being 
> >> in some foreign language is terribly weak.  
> >
> > I did say "for starters".  NPR did a piece on this a 
> > few weeks back, and the language barrier, while 
> > not as much in some areas, was only one of the 
> > arguments used by a guy on the program whose 
> > company lost money outsourcing programming 
> > code to India.

[the sky is falling! run away! indian engineers writing 
code which is difficult to integrate into your original 
software application!  new bugs which you can't 
find easily because you don't know the mistakes 
the indian engineers typically make! etc.! etc.!]

> > So the *total cost* to the company will probably 
> > be quite a lot higher than any savings from 
> > outsourcing.  Its not the same as handing the
> > programming work to Phil's Consulting three 
> > blocks away.  The foreign engineers add whole 
> > new levels of bugs and patent/copyright issues 
> > which most companies seem to be ignoring in their 
> > rush to make their bottom lines.  Long-term costs 
> > get ignored in the modern business world, but
> > while shipping with a few bugs works most of the 
> > time, ignoring the additional and longer term costs 
> > of outsourcing will kill any "savings" from foreign 
> > outsourcing.
> >
> > Its still a sweet deal for India.  We provide them 
> > with access to American application source code, 
> > help train their engineers to have better skills than 
> > American engineers, and generally add more to 
> > their companies than they give to ours.  Eventually 
> > they'll start demanding American salaries for their 
> > work, and the foreign outsourcing savings will 
> > dry up.  
> 
> You know, I think all of us are doomed eventually.  
> There was something on /. a few months ago saying 
> how they are teaching chimps (no kidding....chimps 
> - like monkeys -) to code.  The chimps were very 
> successful and preferred C to Java.  Seriously, this 
> was a link from /.  

Well, everyone prefers C to Java.  :)

Chimps are pretty smart on their own.  They develop tools for finding
food and teach their skills to their children, and different groups of
chimps develop different skills.  One of my favorite chimp stories was
about two population groups of chimps living in the same general area. 
One developed a technique of scooping up ants using a short stick.  The
other population group developed the same general technique for ant
eating, but they used a longer stick.  Both techniques had their
advantages (easier to find and control the short stick; longer stick
required less scoops to get the same amount of food)

> This makes me think that ALL of us should probably 
> be getting some other skills than just coding.  For one 
> thing I've read lotsa stuff (and heard from interviewers) 
> that they want techs that also have a good ability for 
> communication 

I've heard that from college advisors before, that companies are looking
for people with Communication and English degrees so that the companies
can teach them computers.  Apparently its easier and cheaper to teach
computer skills to people who know how to communicate, than to teach
communication skills to people who already have computer skills (probably
because we think of our computers as PEOPLE and find real people
confusing as a result...).

Until I started coming more regularly to the KCLUG meetings, most of the
computer professionals I knew all started off with Communications or
English degrees, then fell into jobs as computer programmers or network
engineers.  I was meeting so many computer professionals who didn't get
IT degrees that I was (and still am) considering a degree in English as
being a stepping stone into an IT career.  :)

> (with other PEOPLE) 

You mean I'm not E-mailing to other computers?  You're people?  AAAGGG! 
<hides under desk>  

> and can look at things and always find a 
> positive viewpoint to see it in.  From a strictly 
> business viewpoint, the $$$ 80% of these 
> companies are saving is great, and I can't 
> blame them.
> 
> All that said, I think it's crap all the outsourcing.  

You can't blame them, but outsourcing is crap?  

There's something dichotomous with those two statements... :)

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