[OT] partialy I was wondering what suggestions for programing

[Shayne Patton]

Leo J Mauler wrote:

>On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:49:19 -0600 "Michael Shaw" <dbwizzard at kc.rr.com>
>writes:
>  
>
>>>Of course, companies outsourcing programming to 
>>>India are losing fast too.  Re-integration of programming 
>>>code written by an individual who has problems with the 
>>>English language can cost almost as much as twice the
>>>cost savings of hiring lower paid Indian programmers.  
>>>For starters all the documentation, if there is any, is more 
>>>likely to be in a different language than English.
>>>      
>>>
>
>[snip!]
> 
>  
>
>>In response to these statements I say:
>>
>>1)   The argument about documentation being in some 
>>foreign language is terribly weak.  
>>    
>>
>
>I did say "for starters".  NPR did a piece on this a few weeks back, and
>the language barrier, while not as much in some areas, was only one of
>the arguments used by a guy on the program whose company lost money
>outsourcing programming code to India.
>
>The language barrier is just one element of the main issue: you have no
>direct project control when you outsource, especially to another country.
> If you are outsourcing part of your new software application to another
>country, any level of language barrier will be the *least* of your
>problems.  
>
>They don't have to write good code, and if they write lousy, bug-ridden
>code, you've already paid out money for it.  A weak argument, but
>consider the other elements of loss of control.
>
>You have to integrate their code into yours (take your bugs and their
>bugs and multiply the two to find the new number of bugs to remove).  
>
>Your engineers know the kinds of mistakes they usually make.  Your
>engineers do not know the kinds of mistakes the foreign engineers usually
>make.  This will make finding the bugs even harder.
>
>And add in all the inter-continental patent and copyright issues (such as
>their country may not recognize any of your patent/copyright rights to
>your own code) as well as the unreliability of inter-continental NDAs,
>and you've just released your new application's source code into the
>hands of foreign software companies (or worse, into the Public Domain).
>
>So the *total cost* to the company will probably be quite a lot higher
>than any savings from outsourcing.  Its not the same as handing the
>programming work to Phil's Consulting three blocks away.  The foreign
>engineers add whole new levels of bugs and patent/copyright issues which
>most companies seem to be ignoring in their rush to make their bottom
>lines.  Long-term costs get ignored in the modern business world, but
>while shipping with a few bugs works most of the time, ignoring the
>additional and longer term costs of outsourcing will kill any "savings"
>from foreign outsourcing.
>
>Its still a sweet deal for India.  We provide them with access to
>American application source code, help train their engineers to have
>better skills than American engineers, and generally add more to their
>companies than they give to ours.  Eventually they'll start demanding
>American salaries for their work, and the foreign outsourcing savings
>will dry up.  
>
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>  
>
You know, I think all of us are doomed eventually.  There was something 
on /. a few months ago saying how they are teaching chimps (no 
kidding....chimps - like monkeys -) to code.  The chimps were very 
successful and preferred C to Java.  Seriously, this was a link from /.  
This makes me think that ALL of us should probably be getting some other 
skills than just coding.  For one thing I've read lotsa stuff (and heard 
from interviewers) that they want techs that also have a good ability 
for communication (with other PEOPLE) and can look at things and always 
find a positive viewpoint to see it in.  From a strictly business 
viewpoint, the $$$ 80% of these companies are saving is great, and I 
can't blame them.

All that said, I think it's crap all the outsourcing.  It all started w/ 
NAFTA, which was crap too.  Business and Politics coming together to 
"service" the middle class.  Just once I'd like to find a way to bend'em 
over and "service" them back.  :-)

You all can ban me from the mailing list if you think this is too 
crude.  Just one question before you do.  Do you watch pg movies?  If 
so, this shouldn't bother you.........but I'll never stop calling it how 
I see it. 

Universally,
Shayne