Organization Poll on the KCLUG Forums

[Jeffrey Watts]

NOTE: I'm not taking sides in this debate.  I'm just a hitchhiker
here.  Also note that I'm not replying directly to Julie.  She just
brought up some good points.  :)

Moderate:  To keep within reasonable or proper limits; not extreme,
excessive, or intense

Censor:  To examine books, films, or other material and to remove or
suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise
objectionable.

Those are two different things.  ALL social environs are moderated.
ALL.  Sometimes this moderation is official and in the hands of an
individual or two and sometimes it's just enforced via peer pressure.
Censorship can be considered an extreme of moderation.  I don't think
anyone is talking about censorship.  What folks are asking for is for
people to exercise good judgment and manners, and if they don't, that
there be some process for correcting them.

Talking about Hitler being a member of the Catholic church on a Linux
user group mailing list is poor manners.  There are places for that
kind of discussion.  Those of you who don't understand why that kind
of discussion can offend people obviously don't go outside very much.
I don't think people joined KCLUG to discuss such things, and when
they get upset by it, they are in the right and their views should be
respected.  Dismissing them as wanting to "censor" is a straw man.
This isn't an issue of censorship.

Sure, there's "free speech".  Sure, you can say whatever you want.
But saying whatever you want whenever you want regardless of what
others think makes you rude and a bore.  There are forums and mailing
lists where people can say offensive things to each other all day
long.  Viva la Internet!

Anyhow, seems like what folks are asking for is for there to be some
kind of standards for your general discussion list, and some way of
enforcing them.  That is not unreasonable, and is how 99% of the world
works.  That's why we have neighborhood watches, police departments,
and government.  Those are good things, as long as they're not
overbearing.

Nobody is asking for a dictatorship.  Nobody seems to be asking for a
sanitized, always on-topic list.  What folks are asking for is
_moderation_.  That is, control of the extremes.  After all, I'm
willing to bet that almost everyone would vocally support moderation
should someone start posting racist comments...  Is that censorship?
No.  That's _moderation_.  There are White Power websites and forums
all over the place where that kind of "free speech" is welcome.

Anyhow, do what you guys want, as I said, I'm a hitchhiker.  Creating
a separate list for folks to say random and possibly unsavory things
could be a good compromise, but I must ask you all this: why in a
Linux User Group?  Shouldn't there be some attempt to keep relatively
on-topic in a very specialized social organization like a LUG?

Good luck.
Jeffrey.

P.S.  Julie makes a good point about taking responsibility for one's
actions, but the problem here is that sometimes people don't, and they
need to be moderated by others.  Much as in real life.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Julie <betelgeuse67stang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Monty J. Harder wrote:
>
> Just because of ONE instance of a heated discussion someone now wants to
> effect Censorship. Is Censorship what the group as a _whole_ REALLY wants???
> What I have silently watched up until now is a small minority trying to
> effect its will upon the majority here in the 'new letter', the "Poll" set
> aside. What is wrong with this picture? ...AND does it remind you,
> personally, of another Greater Entity in this Country?
>
[... snip ...]
>
> Suggestion: Why don't ya'll just drop it like adults instead of squabbling
> like grade schoolers or 'rumbling' like street gangs simply carry on
> learning from this/these "debates" that one should live to be responsible
> for ones own actions, etc instead of having impositions/restrictions
> legislated upon everone???


-- 

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy
from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a
precedent that will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine