I know it when I see it. (was Re: <whoops no subject>)

[Leo Mauler]

--- On Sat, 7/19/08, Luke -Jr <luke at dashjr.org> wrote:

> On Saturday 19 July 2008, Leo Mauler wrote:
> > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Luke -Jr <luke at dashjr.org>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wednesday 16 July 2008, Oren Beck wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Consider how YOU would write a RFC draft to
> > > > sever adult from non-adult content ! 
> > >
> > > 1. Please don't refer to immoral images as
> > > "adult"; there are still some decent adults
> > > left, no matter how many damn themselves with 
> > > this crud.
> >
> > And to top it all off, why is a photograph of a 
> > nude woman "pornography" while a painting of a 
> > nude woman is "art"?  This distinction has 
> > allowed people to get away with all kinds of 
> > stuff in the Pornographic Painting Industry.  
> > Sculpture too, as you can even see "David's" 
> > tallywhacker on half a dozen websites, entirely 
> > for free.
> 
> It seems you need to review the difference between 
> nudity and porn...
> 
> Main Entry: por·nog·ra·phy
> 1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures 
> or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
> 2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts 
> erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual 
> excitement

"Intent" is often irrelevant.  In its original context, and despite lurid pictures and descriptions of sexual activity, the Kama Sutra was not intended to cause sexual excitement, but rather to instruct couples on how to engage in pleasurable sex.  Even so, in modern times it is frequently used as a source of pornography.

Other books exist along the same lines, using drawings and non-human figures to present ways of livening up the bedroom (such as this KCLUG list-appropriate set of pictures, http://tinyurl.com/4aqopj). Like beauty, the beholder is the determining factor, determining whether the images are pornographic or artistic.

Of course, there are art forms where the two are inextricably combined, such as designs in body paint (http://www.netnude.com/main/bodyp.html).  The website has women who are nude except for body paint, but I would be unable to state that the complex designs on the human body "canvases" aren't art.

Some research I did for this indicates that while modern artists regard nudes in life drawing classes to be good for learning how to better draw, paint, and sculpt clothed human forms, they also generally think that modern finished nude art works are more voyeuristic softcore porn than art.  Nudity may have been mostly art in the Greek, Roman, and Renaissance periods, but now art nudes are largely regarded as softcore porn.

Which further blurs the line between "adult images" and "immoral images".

> Main Entry: nude
> 2 a: devoid of a natural or conventional covering;
> especially : not covered by clothing or a drape
>   b (1): of the color of a white person's flesh
>     (2): giving the appearance of nudity <a nude dress>

Art is supposed to cause a reaction in the audience.  Nudity in art these days is regarded more as voyeuristic softcore porn, meaning quite simply that it is rare that a modern nude artwork is done for a reaction other than a sexuality-based reaction.

> > Immoral images can be adult, its just in how you
> > present them.
> 
> Immoral images are inherently abusive and not appropriate
> for any audience.

So a devil having sex with a penguin is inherently abusive and not appropriate for any audience?  How about Tux painting a woman wearing only a half-T-Shirt? (http://lwn.net/Gallery/i/ggismall.gif)?

These kinds of comments will only add to Linux's "anti-sex" image, as described by this website ("adult" images throughout, though no nudity beyond one woman only wearing body paint):

Linux and Sex: Debunking the Myth
http://tinyurl.com/5t8mmm