Wine, Whine, installs, and the like

[D. Hageman]

Well, I would like to point out their is a difference between using a Mac 
to create images, touch up photos, do layout work for a magazine and using 
a linux server farm to render "scenes".  

Two different fields of interest ... two different markets.  Each has its 
own niche.

On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Brian Densmore wrote:

> This is not flamebait either, but I know many artists who would fight
> you tooth and nail, or at least pencil and paintbrush, on this. Mac is
> used extensively by artists. But Linux is rapidly gobbling up this
> market. Alas, I see doom in Mac's future.
> Cases in point :
> Titanic (the movie), Shrek, Lord of the Rings (due for release very soon
> - and I might add - IT'S ABOUT FREAKIN' TIME!)
>  
> Sorry about that, but Middle Earth is a touchy subject for me. Frodo
> Lives!
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Palmer [mailto:repalmer at sunflower.org]
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 9:48 AM
> To: Steve Johnson; 'kclug at kclug.org'
> Subject: RE: Wine, Whine, installs, and the like
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> At 9:07 PM -0600 11/8/01, Steve Johnson wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes Mac OS is great as long as you don't attempt to run any real
> applications,
> or network it, or do any real work with it.  OS-X is great as long as
> you
> don't try to use any Mac aps on it.  I'm in the GA business, so I know
> just a
> 
> teensy bit about what I say on this subject....
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't a flame...just a long standing observation.  Don't want to
> get into a Mac vs the world thing.  But anyone that makes statements
> about the Mac OS like that simply hasn't ever use it or been around it.
> You're repeating an urban legend of the first order-created and
> maintained by Microsoft.  
> 
> Wine, Windows and other junk........
> 
> I routinely run Windows  in emulation-under OS 9 emulation-under OS X on
> a 350 MHz iMac/786 megs RAM.  Runs about 200 MHz fast.  :)
> 
> Scattered files.....
> 
> I think the beef with OS X for most Mac folks is exactly that scattered
> file thing-Mac people are used to concrete places to put stuff which can
> be thrown away in a snap if you don't like it-back to square one no harm
> done.   I've found that its easier to get a Mac user up to speed on a PC
> because they have no fear of screwing things up when they should be very
> afraid.  Converting PC people to Macs is more difficult because
> (formerly-OS 9) they were very afraid of screwing things up when they
> should have been having fun.   My guess is that Apple will be a dual OS
> company for quite sometime.  Maybe that's the way it should be.
> 
> Lastly and most important....
> Revisiting community/public networking/wireless .
> 
> I do want to get back and discuss this seriously.  I posted that article
> nearly 2 months before it popped up on the list.  Recently we've been
> really busy and I haven't had a chance to respond. So in a nut shell:
> 
> Sunflower is a not for profit.  Sunflower has a long term track record
> of slugging it out with the corporate giants, improving/growing, and
> staying in business.  Someone wanted to know what Sunflower brought to
> the table.  Frankly, Sunflower is the "public network" table right now.
> All the rest is pipe dream.   If there is interest in shaping the
> direction etc then that requires participation.
> 
> Sunflower is willing to finance things to whatever degree it can.  I
> don't mean to minimize the financial commitment- it will be large.  Make
> no bones about it though-its a boot strap thing...but that's good.
> That's why it can work.  That's why you and me can play.  That's why the
> corporate giants will hate us.
> 
> We've been in discussions for a year with a national satellite TV
> provider that needs Internet at apartment complexes where they can't put
> up dishes.  That can provide a place to put broadcast stuff.  We could
> close that deal if we had the manpower to actually get it done.
> 
> Nothing should be on the slide.  We can't build it unless its all legal.
> The big guys will shut us down if it isn't.
> 
> I think those were the important points.
> 
> All our effort right now is going towards becoming the first national
> not for profit ISP.  We want to claim the title of NPR or PBS of
> computing. That brings money and power to negotiate.  The national
> network is hot and we're on the financial clock tweaking the back end
> systems so we're swamped messing with those pesky hidden files.  :)  We
> will use the national network to build out these wireless systems where
> ever there is interest.  Interest being defined as people who take the
> initiative trying to get things done.  :)
> 
> end caffeine rant,
> 
> rick
> 
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> 
> 
> At 9:07 PM -0600 11/8/01, Steve Johnson wrote:
> 
> Nope, your not offensive, just omnipotent and pontificative.
> 
> 
> Yes Mac OS is great as long as you don't attempt to run any real
> applications,
> or network it, or do any real work with it.  OS-X is great as long as
> you
> don't try to use any Mac aps on it.  I'm in the GA business, so I know
> just a
> teensy bit about what I say on this subject....
> 
> 
> I do agree with your philosophy with learning, except I try to learn 10
> new
> 
> things a day.
> 
> 
> sj
> 
> 
> 
> >===== Original Message From D. Hageman <SMTP:dhageman at dracken.com>
> =====
> >On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Steev Johnson wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, I have to deal with MAC OS too much already thank you.
> >
> >Mac OS is a great operating system and I think that the new releases
> have
> >a lot of potential.   Shoot almost every GUI shell since then has tried
> to
> >replicate it to some degree or another.
> >
> >> It must be great to know everything.
> >
> >Well, I don't know everything yet, but I work closer to that goal every
> >day.  Some people say I won't ever reach that goal, but oh well - you
> >gotta try right?  I get the impression that you found some of my
> comments
> >offensive - please look at placement of the smileys to assist you in
> >interperting my comments.  As for the rest of my reply - their is good
> >information in there.  I find it a wasted day when I don't learn
> >something.  :-)
> >
> >
> >>
> >> sj
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: D. Hageman [  <mailto:dhageman at dracken.com>
> mailto:dhageman at dracken.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 2:27 PM
> >> To: Steev Johnson
> >> Cc: kclug at kclug.org
> >> Subject: Re: Wine, Whine, installs, and the like
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Steev Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >> > I saw the posts on WINE and I thought about the fact that the only
> way
> >>
> >> > I can bear installing software on Linux is to drink some wine
> first.
> >> > Now
> >>
> >> Well, if that is what you have to do then that is what you have to
> do.
> >> I
> >> recommend that if you think that you are becomming an alcoholic you
> >> switch
> >> to Mac OS.  :-)
> >>
> >> > Well, so does Linux.
> >>
> >> No.
> >>
> >> Depends on the distrobution you run and what the philosphy is.  If
> you
> >> get
> >> a BSD style distro you will find that you have neat little
> directories
> >> for
> >> most major pieces of software with the binaries soft linked back into
> >> your
> >> path.  RPM/DEB based distros do spread files around, but if you know
> how
> >>
> >> to use your package tool you can find the files very easily.
> >>
> >> rpm -ql <package>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Let's take for example the MYSQL package as implemented under
> Trustix,
> >>
> >> > or any other distribution for that matter.  None of the RPMS really
> >> > WORK to get it installed, there is still tons of Mickey mouse to
> make
> >> > it work
> >> > - if it ever does.
> >>
> >> Well, sounds like you need to write the maintainers of the RPM and
> let
> >> them know that their RPMs are broken.
> >>
> >> > trying to figure out why safe_mysqld hangs.   What every happened
> to
> >> the
> >> > glorious days of DOS when everything was in the same %$&!
> directory!?
> >> > What was wrong with that?
> >>
> >> Nothing, see above.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Yes, I understand the shared data and the centralized config
> >> > can/should be somewhere else, but this is just a mess!  Whether it
> >> > gets installed under /usr/bin or /usr/shared or usr/local or
> whatever
> >> > seems to depend on how someone was feeling that day.  Much like
> >> > windows.  At least with windows, I KNOW there are only a couple
> places
> >>
> >> > other than the app directory that they are going to dump DLLs and
> the
> >> > like.
> >>
> >> And why ... because you have run Windows for so long.  It is called
> >> experience.
> >>
> >> > cobol.  If I can't figure this stuff out easily, how is the average
> >> > sysop ever going to be able to deal with this?
> >>
> >> No matter how I answer this question it will be bad.  I will pass ;-)
> >>
> >> Have fun!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >//========================================================\
> >||  D. Hageman                    <dhageman at dracken.com>  ||
> >\========================================================//
> 
> 
> 

-- 
//========================================================\
||  D. Hageman                    <dhageman at dracken.com>  ||
\========================================================//