Jobs?

[Eric Rossiter]

While i'm at it, i thought i'd spam a bit more to ask if anyone knows of any
good part-time computer repair/build/sales/networking jobs that would work
well for a full time DeVRY student (well, soon to be devry student,
currently high school student for 7 more weeks).  I need a $8/hour or so
paying job offering hours close to 3pm-whenever and possible weekends? This
would be great if in the Overland Park area.  Lately I've been confined to
applying at Micro Center and CompUSA, none of which seem to like highschool
kids who try to look cool by putting linux on their job applications :)

   Jared

Wow,...sorry Jared, you've discovered the inherent flaw in User
Groups....you rarely get an answer to your original question and have to
wade through the copious amounts of personal opinion tripe, and that's my
opinion.  =)

So...now that I've opened my devils advocate penny jar...I'll continue.
This is quite long as I've replied to several posts. My most humble
apologies, but I felt these issues needed addressing.

[snip]
If you have marketable skills in Linux or whatever else, then you should be
looking for a job that pays a lot more than $8 per hour.  For entry level,
you should expect at least $16-$18 per hour to start.  If you justify your
Linux experience with an LCA or RHCE cert, then several companies will be
interested in you as an junior, or at the very least, entry level Unix
admin.  Junior level unix admins are paid pretty handsomely.
Rick Meeker
[snip]

Nicely done Rick, you came as close to anyone to answering this young man's
question.

[snip]
Do you mind if I ask why you're going to DeVry?  Are you going for a CIS
degree or an electronics degree?  The reason that I ask is that I am a
former DeVry student who got sick of paying WAY too much $$$ for the
"education" that I was getting there.
Do you mind if I ask why you're going to DeVry?  Are you going for a CIS
degree or an electronics degree?  The reason that I ask is that I am a
former DeVry student who got sick of paying WAY too much $$$ for the
"education" that I was getting there.
[snip]

Remember you're ultimately striving for return on investment here (or you
damn well should be.)  I received a B.S. degree from DeVRY KC with about 60k
invested with interest.  Trying going to a 4 yr. University for 60 friggin
k.

[snip]
1. Inexperienced teachers.  I had my fill of teachers reading verbatim out
of the book to me in the classroom.  Teachers were teaching subjects in
which they had NO Real-World experience, contrary to what they say in their
commercials.  Not all teachers, mind you, but enough to make me balk.  They
hired a lady to teach COBOL who had been in the workforce for 3 years (she
was a DeVry graduate), and within 2 semesters, she was teaching
Client-Server architecture.  One of my friends who took that class basically
helped her make it through the semester because she had NO idea what she was
doing.
[snip]

Yeah? So what?  Every where I've ever worked there were people in positions
of authority and grunts as well, who were lost without a clue.  One
advantage DeVRY professors have is that 9 times out of 10 they are using a
course prep. that was developed by someone with real-world experience.  One
of the first things I learned at DeVRY was the fact that "we're all in this
together."

[snip]
2. For a school that was on the "Cutting Edge", I had taken 5 COBOL classes
as opposed to 1 C++ class by the time I left.  This is in the mid-1990s.
[snip]

You keep spouting DeVRY's commercial slogans like that's the only thing you
learned.  Well, another one of DeVRY's toutings, is a "Broad base of
knowledge."  Yes, DeVRY throws a lot of COBOL at you.  When I began, I knew
nothing about programming, and a language written in English-like statements
was a large help in my introduction, compared to the cryptic chaotic crap
that is "C" (now, you'll have to forgive my opinion here, I don't like C.)
It is also a simple fact that there are still millions of lines of COBOL
running to this day, and a person can make quite a comfortable salary as a
COBOL maintenance programmer.

[snip]
3. I was paying WAY too much money for what I was getting in return.  Not
that I am discouraging you from going to college.  I am going to go back and
finish my degree some day, only not at DeVry!
[snip]

OK, this last statement is so biased as to be ridiculous.  It's all about
return on investment.... Did you put the effort into the 4 or 5 hours of
outside study (or more) per class, or just run through the halls whining
about "how screwed up" the professors were?  How do know you were paying to
much?  Did you put any time and research into the cost of an equivalent 4
year degree at UCLA or perhaps MIT?

Another thing to remember... DeVRY is NOT a college and can not be compared
to such.  Hell, DeVRY isn't even a technical school if you break it down to
the nuts and bolts.  Lets get outside the box here folks.... DeVRY is a
business...and like every business entity it's ultimate goal is to run in
the black and turn a profit.

[snip]
I hope I haven't rained on your parade, I just wanted to let you know what
my experience at that school was, as a contrast to the picture that the
recruiters paint for you when they are trying to get your money.
[snip]

Well congratulations, you probably did.  The poor kid didn't ask you to shit
in his lunch pail concerning experiences at DeVRY and petition for your
personal misguided opinions and conjecture, he asked about part time help
positions and the availability of such.

[snip]
Fully investigate the school that you are wanting to go to.  Get
opinions from current students as well as alumni.  I was starry eyed, new in
town, and knew nothing about anything when I was reeled in by the DeVry
recruiters.
[snip]

Your first two sentences in the previous paragraph are the smartest things
said in your email.  And in case any of you high school grads./potential
college students out there don't know it....recruiters have families to take
care of and bills to pay too  just like the rest of us working stiffs.  They
are paid to fill seats, that's why they are called "recruiters."

[snip]
I'll second this opinion.  I started in July of 1989 and took my sweet time
finishing, but the entire program was a joke.
[snip]

*sigh*  Once again your pontificating and postulating is WAY off subject.
And, once again, if you started in 89 (you were probably all of what, the
wise old age of MAYBE 20? 25? (and I could be wrong, I reckon we'll see ))
what possible real-life experiences can you base this jaded opinion on???

[snip]
(I graduated in March 1993,
but would have graduated in 1992 if memory serves me right.)   Gene is
absolutely right, the about of COBOL they rammed down your throat was just
unreal.  I had a C class, Pascal, and that's about all I can remember that
was anything remotesly applicable to what I do now.
[snip]

Jesus Christ Bradley, how ignorant can you get...you're talking about a
friggin DECADE ago...  "Thats about all I can remember" is the key phrase in
this sentence.  Did you have your brain engaged when you were typing this???
I didn't have PASCAL when I attended DeVRY...should I feel slighted?... I
don't know....

[snip]
DeVry got me a slip of
paper and my foot in the door to work at Xerox.   That was about it.
Everything else I've taught myself so far, and since my Xerox days I've
managed to triple my salary (in 5 years).
[snip]

Ok, lets cut through the crap and get to the bottom line....all anyone is
getting from a "tech" school or a 4 year University is a stupid piece of
paper that will get you in a door.  Of course everything else you've taught
yourself...did you think that when you graduated all knowledge you'd ever
need was known???  Congrats Brad, you're doing well. I don't know at what
pay level you started, but with a broad base of knowledge from DeVRY, the
analytical and problem solving skills I learned there, plus, the "piece of
paper I paid for," I've tripled my salary in 3 years.

[snip]
DeVry is oriented to
take someone off the street and "make" them a geek/programmer/etc.   I
still say you can't "make" someone into a technology person.
[snip]

Yeah, well you're wrong.  I went back to school at the age of 34 and dealt
with a lot of young, foolish opinions such as yours.  I had never set at a
computer before then, swore I'd never own one, hated them in fact.  When it
became evident that arthritis would prevent a continuance of my existing
career, I bought a computer, paid for about a dozen magazine subscriptions,
dug in, worked like hell, attended DeVRY and 6 years later I'm well on my
way in a totally different career field.  I have more and provide for my
family better today than ever before. I'd say with a hellofalot of hard work
on my part, DeVRY did a spankin good job of "making" me.  I'm going to wager
a guess that you are under 30..... everytime one of you Gen. X Overland Park
yuppies opens your mouth, it reinforces my opinion of how ignorant and
clueless you all are as a whole.

[snip]
I think that the 'tech' schools don't teach enough of the things that real
professionals need to know.  First off, they don't require enough Math or
Physics to let their students understand why the things they are learning
work the way they work.  Then there's the lack of the liberal arts subjects,
which I think are important to give you a sense of your place in soceity.
(and also important to make you realize that you can't be an expert in
everything, which is somewhat lacking in a lot of technologists)
[snip]

Sorry to bust your bubble man, but that's the whole point to DeVRY.  Get in,
learn the tech shit, and get the hell out.  I personally was overjoyed that
I didn't have to spend another year paying for general education classes and
touchy-feely crap I didn't want and wasn't interested in.  I had a family to
support man, I didn't have the joyous opportunity to languish at a 4 year
University, drink beer at frat parties and chase pussy.  One of DeVRY's
major sales points is the accelerated 3 year program.  I'm also curious to
know, what do you think your place in society is, and how did you come by
that belief?  Oh, by the way, did a 4 year university teach you to spell
society wrong?

Wow, another two emails with this thread.  One of which was close to on
topic, the other which gave me a tremendous belly laugh.  I wasn't going to
dignify it with a reply but I can't let it slide.

[snip]
However, I want
to get into programming, so I'm taking some classes at night at Penn Valley.
Penn Valley's Computer Science Program isn't that great, but it is by far
superior to Devry's even if it is only an Associates Degree.
[snip]

Like I said, everytime you open your effin mouths.......  *laughs loud, and
laughs long*

[snip]
I shopped around the various College and Tech schools for an Electronics
program a few years back, and I heard something that I thought might be
useful for a potential DeVry applicant.  This was from someone who was in a
position to hire people with degrees/training in electronics for an Avionics
manufacturer.
He said "DeVry's strength is it's national reputation as a technical school,
and it's network of job placement contacts in other cities.  The school in
KC is not as good as the others on which their reputation is based, and
their placement network here is practically non-existent.  DeVry would be a
good bet for someone who intended to apply only in other cities where DeVry
has a strong presence.  It's a poor investment for someone planning to
remain in K.C."
[snip]

A few years ago??  He who??  The rest of this is just bullshit. Pure
bullshit.

[snip]
Jared, my advice would be to get a Bachelor's or Associates in Liberal Arts,
and to get some experience somewhere like Gateway or H&R Bloch's Tech
Support phone banks.
[snip]

Oh yeah, a B.S. in Liberal Arts in 2001 is a fantastic career choice.  That
would give you a remarkably broader range of work to be out of....

Jared,

With hard work and dedication, you can obtain a remarkable and highly
marketable education from DeVRY.  Sure, it's not perfect, but one of you
misguided yuppies show me something that is...  The reputation in the Kansas
City area for DeVRY grads is one of high respect and esteem.  I know this
from interactions with several companies in this area, from Fortune 100
companies and on down the food-chain.  My wife was recently hired at a
company here in KC, on the first interview.  She told the HR person that she
would have access to her husbands extensive library of technical books, and
his DeVRY education.  With my help, where IT and IS are concerned, she runs
circles around her co-workers and her employers.  I have, in the past 2
years since graduation, taken several training courses (costing several
thousands of dollars) in various "advanced" topics from ICON and CompuMaster
and others.  I am bored stiff at everyone of these things, learning nothing
but the fact that I DID receive an excellent education from DeVRY.

With that said Jared, I'll tell you what I would do now, knowing what I do
now and what I didn't then.  I would take any and all of my Gen. Ed. courses
at say, Longview College for substantially less per credit hour.  The Deans
and recruiters at DeVRY will be able to provide you with a list of courses
that can be taken outside of DeVRY, and will be accepted as transfer
credits.  You can save yourself a substantial sum of money this way.  Also
( and this is the one thing I have to agree with out of the 6 or 7 replies
I've seen to this thread) stay away from DeVRY housing.....it is a rip-off.
If you are not local, try and find 2 or 3 other students you can get
together with, and rent something off-campus.

I also wouldn't let these pinheads piss in your Wheaties either.  Maintain
your excitement about DeVRY and the wonderful opportunities obtaining an
education there will present you.  When you do get a professor that leaves
something to be desired, and things aren't going just absolutely
peachy-friggin-keen, and you begin to question your decision, remember
this.... after 40 years on this planet and 25 in the work force, NOTHING, NO
WHERE, NO HOW, is EVER any better....  The grass is NOT greener on the other
side of the septic tank....if it is, it's because the frelling tank has a
leak.

Get with the folks at DeVRY, they can help you find part time work that will
fit your schedule if you haven't found something by then.

Above all remember, DeVRY is a business, and you are the paying customer.
And everyone knows the customer is always right.  Do not be afraid to
question authority at DeVRY.

Well, I sincerely believe I've probably managed to piss everyone on this LUG
off royally... KEWL!!  Maybe next time you'll think before you open your
pie-holes and allow all your ignorance to come spilling out.  You youngsters
throw around the buzz words "real-world" like you have a clue as to what it
means.  You want to know what "real-world" is???? It's the experience you
get in life...years of it. It has nothing to do with your yuppie job, and
the cash you make, and the fancy car you drive.  It's about a decade of a
bad-marriage, mental abuse and domestic violence, it's about divorce court
and child support...children born and children lost, it's about losing
friends, parents and Grand parents, it's about paying mortgages and
bills.... it's about kids and cars, and sleepless nights...it's about phone
calls from lawyers and bill collectors and police officers in the middle of
the night.....it's about getting your ass squarely and entirely kicked, and
still finding the courage, will and frelling energy to not only continue,
but prosper and thrive in the face of life's undeniable odds........
*whew*.....  Getting the effin picture yet chillins???

Nuff said, you kids continue to feel free to whine about your piddley little
rants....

Sincerely, and with true gusto,

Eric Rossiter