From mkc at mathdogs.com Sat Dec 1 01:16:53 2001 From: mkc at mathdogs.com (Mike Coleman) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:38 2004 Subject: KVM Switch by linksys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87wv07oi2r.fsf@mathdogs.com> "Steven Brendtro" writes: > You may have already tried this but, did you try a different keyboard, > perhaps a standard 101/104 key - no extra "Internet/CD Player/Email" buttons > on it. If Intellimouse messed with the Belkin, maybe an odd keyboard messes > with a Linksys... Well, it is a *Microsoft* keyboard, so maybe that explains it... :-) Mike From hutchins at opus1.com Sat Dec 1 04:07:32 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:38 2004 Subject: SCO expirience? Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9145@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Midkiff [mailto:chris@datacaptech.com] > Thanks, I really don't expect any problems. I have a > supported 3com card, > and I am taking a supported Intel card as well, since it's a > 4 hour drive, > and I don't want to go twice. Damn, I miss those days... > The system that I am putting Ethernet into is connected to > serial terminals, > and since they now have a network, they want to avoid running > more serial > cables. It is SOOOO simple to run serial over Cat 5. Perhaps you could have a consultant come with you to show them how? Then when they're ready for a full upgrade, they have the wires in place... From Thomas.Margrave at starbase.com Sun Dec 2 03:39:45 2001 From: Thomas.Margrave at starbase.com (Margrave, Thomas) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Free web hosting question Message-ID: Does anybody know anything about http://duploweb.com/ web site. My mother wants to use them for her website and I do not know anything about them. They say they are free web hosting with out email spam and with out ads. How can somebody make money on this? Tom Margrave From mtpratt at swbell.net Sun Dec 2 03:50:42 2001 From: mtpratt at swbell.net (Michael Pratt) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Free web hosting question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008a01c17ae4ee85430/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bash201a8c0@muldersworld> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_K6y+zfDu2krrRxR57OYkbQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Free web hosting questionI just registed a domain for two years for 17 bucks through www.stargateinc.com no strings attached. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Margrave, Thomas To: 'kclug@kclug.org' Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 9:35 PM Subject: Free web hosting question Does anybody know anything about http://duploweb.com/ web site. My mother wants to use them for her website and I do not know anything about them. They say they are free web hosting with out email spam and with out ads. How can somebody make money on this? Tom Margrave --Boundary_(ID_K6y+zfDu2krrRxR57OYkbQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Free web hosting question
I just registed a domain for two years for 17 bucks through www.stargateinc.com no strings attached.
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 9:35 PM
Subject: Free web hosting question

Does anybody know anything about http://duploweb.com/ web site.  My mother wants to use them for her website and I do not know anything about them.  They say they are free web hosting with out email spam and with out ads.  How can somebody make money on this? 

Tom Margrave



--Boundary_(ID_K6y+zfDu2krrRxR57OYkbQ)-- From hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com Mon Dec 3 17:09:37 2001 From: hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com (Duston, Hal) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem Message-ID: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADCD@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> All, I have just received a call from the Kansas City Missouri Public Library, and they have had a huge water main break there. The meeting room will be unusable for up to the next 2-3 weeks. Therefore we need to find a temporary place to have our December 5th meeting, and possibly the December 18th one. Any ideas out there? Thanks, Hal Duston From j_a_greene at yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 17:49:23 2001 From: j_a_greene at yahoo.com (J Greene) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: video surveillance Message-ID: <20011203174922.82288.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Anyone know of a "good" video surveillance app? Jason ===== http://www.hailmaryfullofgrace.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com From hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com Mon Dec 3 19:15:24 2001 From: hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com (Duston, Hal) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Resolved [Was: Meeting problem] Message-ID: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADCE@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> All, OK, I have got us booked into the West Branch of the Kansas City Missouri Public Library for December 5th from 6:30 PM until 8:45 PM. The address is 2017 W. Pennway Kansas City, MO 64108-2176 I will try to get some directions/map up on the web site today. Hal Duston I wrote: > > All, > > I have just received a call from the Kansas City Missouri > Public Library, and they have had a huge water main break > there. The meeting room will be unusable for up to the > next 2-3 weeks. Therefore we need to find a temporary > place to have our December 5th meeting, and possibly > the December 18th one. Any ideas out there? > > Thanks, > Hal Duston From aaron at aarons.net Mon Dec 3 21:26:04 2001 From: aaron at aarons.net (Aaron) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem In-Reply-To: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADCD@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Message-ID: <001101c17c41100fb40a71f2d1@aaronmhzggcto3> The group is more than welcome to use the Auditorium at Vatterott College. There is Internet access (via 2 T1's ) as well as computers if needed (a couple at least). I've already cleared it with the powers that be. Let me know if you want to use it. Aaron P.S. If you met here I could skip out of class and attend. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duston, Hal" To: "'Kclug'" Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:09 AM Subject: Meeting problem > All, > > I have just received a call from the Kansas City Missouri > Public Library, and they have had a huge water main break > there. The meeting room will be unusable for up to the > next 2-3 weeks. Therefore we need to find a temporary > place to have our December 5th meeting, and possibly > the December 18th one. Any ideas out there? > > Thanks, > Hal Duston > > From chris at datacaptech.com Mon Dec 3 23:16:28 2001 From: chris at datacaptech.com (Chris Midkiff) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem In-Reply-To: <001101c17c41100fb40a71f2d1@aaronmhzggcto3> Message-ID: <000001c17c50901a8c0@chris> Vatterott is _way_ out of the way for most of us, including me. OTOH, Internet Access would sure be great at the meetings. What does everyone think?? Chris -----Original Message----- From: Aaron [mailto:aaron@aarons.net] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:25 PM To: Duston, Hal; 'Kclug' Subject: Re: Meeting problem The group is more than welcome to use the Auditorium at Vatterott College. There is Internet access (via 2 T1's ) as well as computers if needed (a couple at least). I've already cleared it with the powers that be. Let me know if you want to use it. Aaron P.S. If you met here I could skip out of class and attend. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duston, Hal" To: "'Kclug'" Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:09 AM Subject: Meeting problem > All, > > I have just received a call from the Kansas City Missouri > Public Library, and they have had a huge water main break > there. The meeting room will be unusable for up to the > next 2-3 weeks. Therefore we need to find a temporary > place to have our December 5th meeting, and possibly > the December 18th one. Any ideas out there? > > Thanks, > Hal Duston > > From sbrendtro at home.com Tue Dec 4 00:14:42 2001 From: sbrendtro at home.com (Steven Brendtro) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Kernel Make Dep error Message-ID: I am getting the following error while compiling a 2.4.16 kernel after untarring the source, doing a "make mrproper" and a "make menuconfig". I do a "make dep" and after running a while, it gives me: .depend unterminated call to function wildcard missing ")". stop. Other info: Pentium 120 / 32 MB RAM / 128 MB Swap Trustix 1.5 (Redhat derivative) cd /usr/src rm linux # (removing link) tar zxf linux-2.4.16.tar.gz cd linux make mrproper make menuconfig make dep [Error] Am I doing something wrong? Steven Brendtro From hutchins at opus1.com Tue Dec 4 01:55:44 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9147@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Midkiff [mailto:chris@datacaptech.com] > Vatterott is _way_ out of the way for most of us ... Then again, there are a lot of us who don't come because downtown deadville is way out of the way... Where I live, everything's inconvenient, so I don't much care, but I thought I'd point it out. From sbrendtro at home.com Tue Dec 4 02:51:10 2001 From: sbrendtro at home.com (Steven Brendtro) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Kernel Make Dep error In-Reply-To: <001901c17c63c01a8c0@graphics> Message-ID: Thanks to Jared Smith, my problem is solved! I rm -rf /usr/src/linux and untarred/recompiled about 5 more times and it worked. Whoever said that the third time was a charm should be notified. It took a few more tries, but that did the trick. But here's the thing. If I hadn't been so inspired by Jared's encouraging message, I would never have gone those extra two times! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Steve Brendtro -----Original Message----- From: DCT Jared Smith [mailto:jared@dctkc.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:34 PM To: Steven Brendtro Subject: Re: Kernel Make Dep error Sounds like you need a new tie rod end, or a clutch. Might need a transmission overhaul, if it's automatic. My guess is, you're low on oil. Could be a socket wrench in your alternator fins, that happened to me once; took me days to figure it out. -Jared From p_thurmond at yahoo.com Tue Dec 4 07:05:23 2001 From: p_thurmond at yahoo.com (Patrick Thurmond) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A09@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <20011204070518.22043.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> I will try to come in december to one of the meetings and educate everyone on the features of XP. I know this is hard to comprehend, but just b/c ms has made crap for OSes in the past does not mean they can't improve. Heck the worst thing about Linux is the UI. I am sorry to say but it ain't very user friendly and I don't look forward to giving it to my parents for their main pc. It just would end up frustrating the hell out of them. Heck even Redhat wouldn't help. Sorry but that is the one place that MS kicks linux ass is the UI, but especially the GUI. Their command line commands are simple and obvious and don't have a huge amount of switches and triggers to do a simple task like unziping a file. I love linux, but face it, it won't rule the desktop until it becomes a desktop OS, not a server OS with a pretty skin. -Patrick Brian Densmore wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Steinkuehler [mailto:charles@steinkuehler.net] > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:36 PM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Re: XP Performance > > > ... [snip good analysis] ... > I'm continuously amazed by both how fast the new hardware is > that's been > coming out the last couple of years, and how slow M$ can make > these machines > feel...all so I can have those pretty gradient title bars and animated > menus, I guess. Anyone know how to turn all that stuff off? > Restart in DOS mode ;) --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. From eallen at kc.rr.com Tue Dec 4 09:00:24 2001 From: eallen at kc.rr.com (Ed Allen) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: SE Linux (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200112040900.fB490Ch07932@kc.rr.com> This talks about what NSA has added for Linux security. From hutchins at opus1.com Tue Dec 4 13:26:02 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9148@CAVERN> -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > I will try to come in December to one of > the meetings and educate everyone on the > features of XP. I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, and a very good way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. From mtpratt1971 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 14:00:06 2001 From: mtpratt1971 at hotmail.com (Michael Pratt) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Postfix Message-ID: Help! I am pulling my hair out.. How come when I installed postfix on redhat 7.2 I send mail to it no matter who I send it to on the box it goes to postfix@yourdomain.com and nevery gets to the original user? Is there a trick to this. Mike _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From gerald at ethereal.com Tue Dec 4 14:10:01 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Postfix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What does your main.cf file look like? Also, what gets logged to /var/log/maillog when postfix starts up? On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Michael Pratt wrote: > Help! I am pulling my hair out.. How come when I installed postfix on redhat > 7.2 I send mail to it no matter who I send it to on the box it goes to > postfix@yourdomain.com and nevery gets to the original user? > > Is there a trick to this. > > Mike > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Tue Dec 4 15:02:49 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065573@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins [mailto:hutchins@opus1.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 7:22 AM > To: 'Patrick Thurmond'; Brian Densmore > Cc: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: RE: XP Performance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > > > I will try to come in December to one of > > the meetings and educate everyone on the > > features of XP. > > I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, > and a very good > way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. > > We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. > > XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. > My thoughts were along the same line. Thanks for the rotten vegatable idea! ;) > >Heck the worst thing about Linux is the UI. I am sorry to say > >but it ain't very user friendly and I don't look forward to > >giving it to my parents for their main pc. It just would end up > >frustrating the hell out of them. Heck even Redhat wouldn't help. > >Sorry but that is the one place that MS kicks linux ass is the > >UI, but especially the GUI. Sorry I don't agree here. What version are you running? Get a recent release. My wife is about as PC-Handicapped as they get. And she only has two big beefs with Linux (Mandrake 8.0). One is the browser, I haven't heard any complaints since switching to NS 6.2 for her. And the second is email. She has a yahoo account and she gets these stupid forwarded to the Nth degree emails and she wants an easy way to pull out the last forward and drop it in a new email. These emails are ALWAYS multipart emails with cute animated GIFS. If I could make it easy for her to do this one feature, I'd be a God with her for at least a few days. JMHO, Brian From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Tue Dec 4 15:16:16 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065574@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Well, I had to find Vatterott on the map. It is definitely out of the way for me, but I'm ok with it. Certainly less out of the way than the West Branch Library. But I think we already have the room reserved for the next meeting. However, it might be nice in the future. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Midkiff [mailto:chris@datacaptech.com] > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:17 PM > To: 'Kclug' > Subject: RE: Meeting problem > > > Vatterott is _way_ out of the way for most of us, including me. OTOH, > Internet Access would sure be great at the meetings. > > What does everyone think?? > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron [mailto:aaron@aarons.net] > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:25 PM > To: Duston, Hal; 'Kclug' > Subject: Re: Meeting problem > > > The group is more than welcome to use the Auditorium at > Vatterott College. > There is Internet access (via 2 T1's ) as well as computers > if needed (a > couple at least). I've already cleared it with the powers > that be. Let me > know if you want to use it. > > Aaron > > P.S. If you met here I could skip out of class and attend. :) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duston, Hal" > To: "'Kclug'" > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:09 AM > Subject: Meeting problem > > > > All, > > > > I have just received a call from the Kansas City Missouri > > Public Library, and they have had a huge water main break > > there. The meeting room will be unusable for up to the > > next 2-3 weeks. Therefore we need to find a temporary > > place to have our December 5th meeting, and possibly > > the December 18th one. Any ideas out there? > > > > Thanks, > > Hal Duston > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com Tue Dec 4 15:33:13 2001 From: hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com (Duston, Hal) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting reminder and temporary location change Message-ID: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADD4@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> All, ---PLEASE NOTE THE LOCATION CHANGE!!!--- The next meeting of KCLUG is 6:30pm Wed. Dec. 5th, 2001 at the West branch of the Kansas City, MO Public Library. The address of the West branch is 2017 W Pennway, 1.7 miles from the Main branch. Directions are available at the web site http://www.kclug.org/ I will also be placing directions from the Main branch to the West branch at the Main branch on the night of the meeting for people who forget, or aren't on the mailing list. This location is a temporary change since the Main branch has had water damage in the room we have normally been using. Hopefully, we will be able to return to our normal location at the next meeting. This meeting is theoretically an demoday. The meeting-after-the-meeting is at the NKC Denny's at 14th and Burlington. From the library go east one block to Locust, and then north to the Heart of America bridge which takes you directly to Burlington, and 14 blocks north to Denny's. Directions from the meeting to Denny's are also available at the web site. Hal Duston From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Tue Dec 4 15:47:06 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065573@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <20011204094700.A23204@katya> > She has a yahoo account and she gets these stupid forwarded to > the Nth > degree emails and she wants an easy way to pull out the last forward and > drop > it in a new email. These emails are ALWAYS multipart emails with cute > animated GIFS. > If I could make it easy for her to do this one feature, I'd be a God > with her for at > least a few days. > > JMHO, > Brian > That is a job for perl distribution E/ER/ERYQ/MIME-tools-5.411a.tar.gz -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com Tue Dec 4 15:51:18 2001 From: hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com (Duston, Hal) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem Message-ID: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADD5@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Brian Densmore [mailto:DensmoreB@ctbsonline.com] wrote: > > Well, I had to find Vatterott on the map. It is definitely > out of the way for me, but I'm ok with it. Certainly less > out of the way than the West Branch Library. But I think > we already have the room reserved for the next meeting. > However, it might be nice in the future. > > Brian > > Chris Midkiff [mailto:chris@datacaptech.com] wrote: > > > > Vatterott is _way_ out of the way for most of us, including > > me. OTOH, Internet Access would sure be great at the > > meetings. > > > > What does everyone think?? > > > > Chris > > > > Aaron [mailto:aaron@aarons.net] wrote: > > > > > The group is more than welcome to use the Auditorium at > > > Vatterott College. There is Internet access (via 2 T1's) > > > as well as computers if needed (a couple at least). I've > > > already cleared it with the powers that be. Let me know > > > if you want to use it. > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > P.S. If you met here I could skip out of class and attend. :) and > Jonathan Hutchins [mailto:hutchins@opus1.com] wrote: > > > Chris Midkiff [mailto:chris@datacaptech.com] wrote: > > > > Vatterott is _way_ out of the way for most of us ... > > Then again, there are a lot of us who don't come because > downtown deadville is way out of the way... > > Where I live, everything's inconvenient, so I don't much > care, but I thought I'd point it out. And therein lies the difficulty. _Every_ place is out of the way for someone. One way that is sometimes proposed to deal with this is to have a rotating meeting location. The biggest problem with this is people would have difficulty remembering _where_ the meeting is being held this time. One of the important issues to running a successful LUG is to _always_ have the meeting in the _same_ location. That way there is one less barrier to attendance. I know that there are still people who are forgetting _when_ the meeting is being held even though we are on a regular schedule, so trying to remember _where_ the meeting is being held _would_ be an issue. As far as the current location goes, we _could_ change it I suppose, but I certainly would be _strongly_ against having the meeting move around town from month to month. I don't want to have members showing up at the wrong location on the wrong night. That would be a quick way to kill the group. As far as the geographical spread of the membership who attend meetings, I know of people who live in the following locations: Lawrence Belton Raytown Johnson County Independence KCK North of the river So, finding a location that is conviently located to all is not really possible. Just IMHO, Hal Duston From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Tue Dec 4 16:20:31 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: DNS and Time Warner Cable Message-ID: <3C0CF7BF.7090601@innovision.com> Setup: OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT RedHat 7.2 on my desktop, Pentium 500 Hey all. I just moved to Praire Village, but with no DSL access I switched to Road Runner. I reconfigured my external NIC to use DHCP and the session appears to open successfully. The problem is DNS isn't working. The resolv.conf file is rewritten with a "search" on the kc.rr.com domain and the three RR DNS servers as "nameserver"s. I can ping external IPs, but I just can't resolve names. I even tried reconfiguring my desktop to use the old DSL nameservers to no avail. Any suggestions? Setup: OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT RedHat 7.2 on my desktop From hutchins at opus1.com Tue Dec 4 16:50:54 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: DNS and Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: <3C0CF7BF.7090601@innovision.com> Message-ID: <004501c17ce37960c0a@uhc.com> Where are you failing to resolve names? Can you resolve them from the firewall but not from the workstations? Can you ping IP's from the workstations? You can override the resolv.conf by a switch on the line that calls "pump" (I think it's "pump -r" or "-n", check the --help or manpage. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Bellamy" To: "Kclug" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:20 AM Subject: DNS and Time Warner Cable > Setup: > OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT > RedHat 7.2 on my desktop, Pentium 500 > > Hey all. I just moved to Praire Village, but with no DSL access I > switched to Road Runner. I reconfigured my external NIC to use DHCP and > the session appears to open successfully. The problem is DNS isn't > working. The resolv.conf file is rewritten with a "search" on the > kc.rr.com domain and the three RR DNS servers as "nameserver"s. I can > ping external IPs, but I just can't resolve names. I even tried > reconfiguring my desktop to use the old DSL nameservers to no avail. > Any suggestions? > > Setup: > OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT > RedHat 7.2 on my desktop > > > From phidias at netgate.net Tue Dec 4 16:51:32 2001 From: phidias at netgate.net (ndr) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: DNS and Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: <3C0CF7BF.7090601@innovision.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: > Setup: > OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT > RedHat 7.2 on my desktop, Pentium 500 Which version of OpenBSD? I have the same setup with RR and it works fine. > > Hey all. I just moved to Praire Village, but with no DSL access I > switched to Road Runner. I reconfigured my external NIC to use DHCP and > the session appears to open successfully. The problem is DNS isn't > working. The resolv.conf file is rewritten with a "search" on the > kc.rr.com domain and the three RR DNS servers as "nameserver"s. I can > ping external IPs, but I just can't resolve names. I even tried > reconfiguring my desktop to use the old DSL nameservers to no avail. > Any suggestions? Try doing a tcpdump on the external NIC. Are you seeing the DNS traffic getting out? How do you have your NAT setup? Any IPF rules? Does an nslookup timeout or does it return an error immediately? > > Setup: > OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT > RedHat 7.2 on my desktop > > > > From mallahan at swbell.net Tue Dec 4 17:00:34 2001 From: mallahan at swbell.net (Charles Mallahan Jr.) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Has anyone installed TOMCAT with Apache? Message-ID: <3C0D035C.8FA0C511@swbell.net> I am looking for a way to use JSP with my VoiceXML applications. Does anyone else use Java Server Pages, and if so, what is your solution (software). I run Apache 1.3.19, on a 2.4.9 kernel, and I can get Tomcat 3.2.4 to run, but I can't get Apache to come up after I start Tomcat. Any help would be great. Regards, Charles Mallahan mallahan@swbell.net From hutchins at opus1.com Tue Dec 4 18:33:13 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: BadTrans virus running amok Message-ID: <004c01c17cf2f9765707960c0a@uhc.com> I just got hit through another list. If you haven't already, 1) Update your anti-virus software and clean up your machine. 2) Apply the Outlook E-mail Security Update (OESU) patch available at http://office.microsoft.com/Downloads/2000/Out2ksec.aspx so it doesn't happen again. 3) TURN OFF HTML/RTF MAIL! Go to Tools, Options, Send, and set "Mail Sending Format" to "Plain Text". You should never send anything but plain text to a mailing list. Could I emphasise that last one again? TURN OFF THE #@$ STUPID PROPIETARY MICROSOFT MESSAGE FORMATTING! Half the bloody messages on this list are in RTF, and there's no excuse for that on a LINUX list. Hey, Admin, can you strip the stupid stuff back to plain text? From st_moose at yahoo.com Tue Dec 4 18:54:29 2001 From: st_moose at yahoo.com (mike welsh) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: MySQL setup problem Message-ID: <20011204185428.83301.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Trying to get MySQL working and have encountered the follow error when trying to use mysqladmin to change the root password. ./mysqladmin: connect to server at 'localhost' failed error: 'Can;t connect to local MySQL server through socket '/tmp/mysql.sock' (2)' /tmp/mysql.sock exists and has write permissions MySQL version 3.23.43 and a fresh installed RedHat 7.2 any ideas? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com From svekan at mindspring.com Tue Dec 4 19:18:34 2001 From: svekan at mindspring.com (Sam Miller) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Badtrans Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204130728.00a9e4c8@pop.mindspring.com> Anyone know why Zone Alarm would be blocking unauthorized attempts to send after my antivirus program AVG plus Symantec's removal program assured me it had been removed? I've checked for the DLL they mentioned on the site as well as run the antivirus several times. Zone Alarm caught nineteen attempts to send to 65.162.255.10 or mail.cadec.com in ffiteen minutes. I'm running Eudora with HTML turned off (never used Outlook at all). Or is this not a virus? Or will I have to reinstall? I've been trying to get Mandrake installed, but 8.0 doesn't seem to find my 3Com PCI modem and the patch for my Winmodem on my laptop won't work with 8.1. Not yet anyway. From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Tue Dec 4 19:21:46 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: DNS and Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C0D223A.1000508@innovision.com> In-line comments... ndr wrote: > >On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: > >>Setup: >>OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT >>RedHat 7.2 on my desktop, Pentium 500 >> > >Which version of OpenBSD? I have the same setup with RR and it works fine. > OpenBSD 2.8. How did you configure your external hostname.if file? I just have "dhcp" in mine since I wasn't aware of any other options that I'd need. > > >>Hey all. I just moved to Praire Village, but with no DSL access I >>switched to Road Runner. I reconfigured my external NIC to use DHCP and >>the session appears to open successfully. The problem is DNS isn't >>working. The resolv.conf file is rewritten with a "search" on the >>kc.rr.com domain and the three RR DNS servers as "nameserver"s. I can >>ping external IPs, but I just can't resolve names. I even tried >>reconfiguring my desktop to use the old DSL nameservers to no avail. >> Any suggestions? >> > >Try doing a tcpdump on the external NIC. Are you seeing the DNS traffic >getting out? How do you have your NAT setup? Any IPF rules? Does an >nslookup timeout or does it return an error immediately? > Running tcpdump produced practically no output, and that output did not appear to be related to my DNS queries. I saw a few dumps with ...arp who-has... that usually referenced my gateway address or 24.163.154.160, whatever that is. It isn't one of the DNS servers. Are there any different types of packets that DHCP might use that would have been blocked by my ipf.rules? My firewall is essentially unchanged. From dlegion at yahoo.com Tue Dec 4 20:00:24 2001 From: dlegion at yahoo.com (Aldis A Tuck) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: video confrencing Message-ID: <00ce01c17cfe561fa40501a8c0@home> Yeah, lol. We could do a online video confrence. From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Tue Dec 4 20:35:34 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: DNS and Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: <3C0D223A.1000508@innovision.com> Message-ID: <3C0D3386.1030100@innovision.com> Might be my ipf.rules are blocking DHCP/UDP packets which wouldn't have been a problem with DSL. I'll have to confirm this. Anyone know the IP of the RR DHCP server? Marvin Bellamy wrote: > In-line comments... > > ndr wrote: > >> >> On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: >> >>> Setup: >>> OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT >>> RedHat 7.2 on my desktop, Pentium 500 >>> >> >> Which version of OpenBSD? I have the same setup with RR and it works >> fine. >> > > > OpenBSD 2.8. How did you configure your external hostname.if file? I > just have "dhcp" in mine since I wasn't aware of any other options > that I'd need. > >> >> >>> Hey all. I just moved to Praire Village, but with no DSL access I >>> switched to Road Runner. I reconfigured my external NIC to use DHCP >>> and the session appears to open successfully. The problem is DNS >>> isn't working. The resolv.conf file is rewritten with a "search" >>> on the kc.rr.com domain and the three RR DNS servers as >>> "nameserver"s. I can ping external IPs, but I just can't resolve >>> names. I even tried reconfiguring my desktop to use the old DSL >>> nameservers to no avail. Any suggestions? >>> >> >> Try doing a tcpdump on the external NIC. Are you seeing the DNS traffic >> getting out? How do you have your NAT setup? Any IPF rules? Does an >> nslookup timeout or does it return an error immediately? > > > Running tcpdump produced practically no output, and that output did > not appear to be related to my DNS queries. I saw a few dumps with > ...arp who-has... that usually referenced my gateway address or > 24.163.154.160, whatever that is. It isn't one of the DNS servers. > Are there any different types of packets that DHCP might use that > would have been blocked by my ipf.rules? My firewall is essentially > unchanged. > > > > > From svekan at mindspring.com Tue Dec 4 21:12:01 2001 From: svekan at mindspring.com (Sam Miller) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Brian Densmore - 3Com PCI Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204150709.00a9e078@pop.mindspring.com> Brian, It's the one called the USRobotics 56k voice PCI modem (serial 59?? something?). It isn't automagically found - I have gotten it to work with SUSE 6.4 though. Probably just a bit of blood sweat and cursing needed. Same thing with the Lucent winmodem. I've downloaded the tar thingies - worked earlier but not on Mandrake 8.1. Yet. Could it be the C libraries? Thank you, Sam Miller From jfowler at westrope.com Tue Dec 4 21:55:10 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Virus or Not? Message-ID: My firewall keeps getting scanned on port 80 from one of the machines on my network. I thought it was a virus/worm similar to SirCam or CodeRed looking for an IIS server, but I scanned the PC with two different virus scanners and it turned up nothing. The firewall is the default gateway for our network so I was wondering if it's just Internet Explorer scanning for a proxy server. I caught some of the packets with tcpdump but I can't make heads or tails of it. It's the exact same packets every time and only this PC is doing it, which makes me very suspicious. Anyone care to shine some light on this for me? Thanks, -Jeremy PS> Anyone get hit from Goner.A today? Dec 4 14:17:03 fireball portsentry[14873]: attackalert: TCP SYN/Normal scan from host: 192.168.100.183/192.168.100.183 to TCP port: 80 tcpdump: 14:26:28.590942 eth1 < 192.168.100.183.1201 > fireball.westrope.com.http: S 67909477:67909477(0) win 8192 (DF) (ttl 128, id 45040) 4500 0030 aff0 4000 8006 ffd0 c0a8 64b7 c0a8 64fe 04b1 0050 040c 3765 0000 0000 7002 2000 d7a6 0000 0204 05b4 0101 0402 E^@ ^@ 0 .... @^@ ..^F .... .... d.. .... d.. ^D.. ^@ P ^D^L 7 e ^@^@ ^@^@ p^B ^@ .... ^@^@ ^B^D ^E.. ^A^A ^D^B From aaron at aarons.net Tue Dec 4 23:09:22 2001 From: aaron at aarons.net (Aaron) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9147@CAVERN> Message-ID: <000501c17d18a71f2d1@aaronmhzggcto3> It was just a suggestion. Vatterott is right across from the Sports complex on 70. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Hutchins" To: "'Kclug'" Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: RE: Meeting problem > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Midkiff [mailto:chris@datacaptech.com] > > > Vatterott is _way_ out of the way for most of us ... > > Then again, there are a lot of us who don't come because downtown deadville > is way out of the way... > > Where I live, everything's inconvenient, so I don't much care, but I thought > I'd point it out. > > From p_thurmond at yahoo.com Tue Dec 4 23:26:48 2001 From: p_thurmond at yahoo.com (Patrick Thurmond) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9148@CAVERN> Message-ID: <20011204232647.67908.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com> I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I follow the directions to the letter (most which require console commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, and slackware. My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the commands, that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin down on XP, yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new hdd in under 1 minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really user friendly. I will always use linux for things like servers and net admin, no prob, but I am having a heck of a time using it as an everyday desktop. -Patrick Jonathan Hutchins wrote: -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > I will try to come in December to one of > the meetings and educate everyone on the > features of XP. I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, and a very good way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. From derick at shark.zeni.net Tue Dec 4 23:38:53 2001 From: derick at shark.zeni.net (Don Erickson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: BadTrans virus running amok In-Reply-To: <004c01c17cf2f9765707960c0a@uhc.com> Message-ID: <200112042339.fB4Nd0g2002472@shark.zeni.net> In article <004c01c17cf2$1f976570$17960c0a@uhc.com> you write: >TURN OFF THE #@$ STUPID PROPIETARY MICROSOFT MESSAGE FORMATTING! Half the >bloody messages on this list are in RTF, and there's no excuse for that on a >LINUX list. > >Hey, Admin, can you strip the stupid stuff back to plain text? Jeff Dairiki wrote a patch for the GNU Mailman listserver that does precisely this, and also strips attachments. It chooses text if there is a text portion of the email and converts html to text if there is not. I've been using it for nearly a year on a 400+ member mailing list with good results. I know that we use majordomo here, but thought I would let you know that the particular wheel that you are asking about has already been invented. Regards, -Don -- .sig lite From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Tue Dec 4 23:50:15 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <20011204232647.67908.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20011204175009.M23204@katya> I use it every day on the desktop at work with no problems, using Mandrakes software manager. The only thing I installed without it is Star Office, which isn't nice, but it is far from hard. Most of the formatting speed you are talking about is the fact that the OS is finally taking advantage of new hardware features. My problem with XP is the fact that by the time I get to it I have paid for virtually the same product 4 time since 95 just for them to get it "right", and now they want me to report in everytime I connect to the Internet, and let them know I'm there. The worst part is I reinstall my PC and change hardware all the time, and this will require me to call a support phone number to get a new key. MS says that they will have this 24/7, but that will only last so long, or the call wait time will increase to a point that I just don't install it, or I go buy a new copy. That is my complaint over XP. On Tue, Dec , at 03:26:47PM -0800, Patrick Thurmond wrote: > > I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I follow the directions to the letter (most which require console commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, and slackware. > My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the commands, that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin down on XP, yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new hdd in under 1 minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really user friendly. I will always use linux for things like servers and net admin, no prob, but I am having a heck of a time using it as an everyday desktop. > -Patrick > Jonathan Hutchins wrote: -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From msmith at uclick.com Wed Dec 5 00:53:21 2001 From: msmith at uclick.com (Mark Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem In-Reply-To: <000501c17d18a71f2d1@aaronmhzggcto3> Message-ID: <000a01c17d26c0112ac@k1> Anyplace is going to be "_way_ out of the way" for some people. How about your living room? -----Original Message----- From: Aaron [mailto:aaron@aarons.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:09 PM To: Jonathan Hutchins; 'Kclug' Subject: Re: Meeting problem It was just a suggestion. Vatterott is right across from the Sports complex on 70. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Hutchins" To: "'Kclug'" Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: RE: Meeting problem > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Midkiff [mailto:chris@datacaptech.com] > > > Vatterott is _way_ out of the way for most of us ... > > Then again, there are a lot of us who don't come because downtown deadville > is way out of the way... > > Where I live, everything's inconvenient, so I don't much care, but I thought > I'd point it out. > > From jfowler at westrope.com Wed Dec 5 01:09:55 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <20011204175009.M23204@katya> Message-ID: Then there's the fact that XP limits your bandwidth to 80% of your total internet bandwidth for QoS services that you may or may not run. Can't get that 20% back either. However, I believe there is a program out there that will let you change that, not sure what it's called or where you can get it since I don't use XP. -Jeremy > -----Original Message----- > From: JD Runyan [mailto:Jason.Runyan@nitckc.usda.gov] > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:50 PM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Re: XP Performance > > > I use it every day on the desktop at work with no problems, using > Mandrakes software manager. The only thing I installed without it is > Star Office, which isn't nice, but it is far from hard. Most of the > formatting speed you are talking about is the fact that the OS is > finally taking advantage of new hardware features. My problem with XP > is the fact that by the time I get to it I have paid for virtually the > same product 4 time since 95 just for them to get it "right", and now > they want me to report in everytime I connect to the Internet, and let > them know I'm there. The worst part is I reinstall my PC and change > hardware all the time, and this will require me to call a support phone > number to get a new key. MS says that they will have this 24/7, but > that will only last so long, or the call wait time will increase to a > point that I just don't install it, or I go buy a new copy. That is my > complaint over XP. > > On Tue, Dec , at 03:26:47PM -0800, Patrick Thurmond wrote: > > > > I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But > your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am > pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a > time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I > follow the directions to the letter (most which require console > commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have read > alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a > software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And > I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, > and slackware. > > My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, > program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using > the console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the > commands, that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin > down on XP, yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new > hdd in under 1 minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really user > friendly. I will always use linux for things like servers and net > admin, no prob, but I am having a heck of a time using it as an > everyday desktop. > > -Patrick > > Jonathan Hutchins wrote: -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > > > -- > JD Runyan > "You can't milk a point." > David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. > > From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 5 01:44:39 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9149@CAVERN> Would you PLEASE turn OFF the RTF formatting? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and > I don't blame you. But your biggest complaint > I see so far is that it costs money. No, my biggest objection is that Microsoft routinely takes over control of the installation, configuration, and increasingly the operation of their software. You can't meaningfully control what's installed any more. You're forced to do things like install not only a web browser but a web server if you want to run a mail server. It started about the time they decided to try to "integrate" IE with Windows 9x. No, actually, it was really more something that was with 95 from the beginning - the shortcuts to MSN and AOL that you couldn't delete, things like that. There was Small Business Server - to enable email, you had to set up internet service through the scripts, which only allowed you to configure ISP's that had paid to be MS partners. Surprise! There weren't any in Kansas City, and the national ones were really bad deals! Once you broke the script, you couldn't use the 'wizards' for any of the management, which was the whole point of the package. (They also "ran out" of licenses, like they did for the family license of XP, and we had to hack the license system to get it up in the same month we delivered it.) It's just gotten worse from there. XP and .NET are just full of crap you can't turn off. And how about those "Xtags" or whatever, that hijack your document to Microsoft Partnered Web Sites? What if you want to run XP in a closed intranet without access to the .NET and Passport servers? Tough! Want secure transactions? Verisign or the highway, buddy. No options. No local servers. Want to serve your address book as an LDAP database? Sorry, LDAP was an afterthought on Exchange, you'll have to hand-enter the entire directory as local users of your server. Want to upgrade to a new computer? Using Outlook Express 5.0 or better? Sorry, you can't move your mail filters, because they're stored under a unique identifier in the registry, and if you export them and import them to a newer machine, you'll corrupt the registry and have an unbootable computer (FDISK). It's the whole "don't worry, we know what's best, nothing can go worng" attitude that hacks me off. Windows 95 on a Pentium 166 was the best thing to happen to the computer industry since the transistor. Microsoft products have better, more consistent and adaptive user interfaces than any other company's, including Apple's (try using a Mac without a mouse for more than three minutes). Not, perhaps, through any virtue of their own, but because they've bought the best when they didn't write it themselves. Their re-write of the early Mosaic browser code cleaned out bugs that still plague all of the Netscape/Mozilla clones to this day, because Microsoft did the dirty work that the other developers couldn't be bothered with. So no, it's not the money, it's not even the quality of the code, it's the attitude that gets me. From rcb at kc.rr.com Wed Dec 5 01:47:43 2001 From: rcb at kc.rr.com (Bob Batson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Is Your Son a Computer Hacker? Message-ID: http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/2/42056/2147 This was on the Internet, so it has to be true ;-) -- Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W rcb@kc.rr.com Kansas City TCS - Mystic Fire Priest USDA Zone 5 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will do exactly as it pleases. From era at sky.net Wed Dec 5 01:57:23 2001 From: era at sky.net (Edgar Allen) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: XP Performance Message-ID: <200112050157.TAA20647@sky.net> > >them know I'm there. The worst part is I reinstall my PC and change >hardware all the time, and this will require me to call a support phone >number to get a new key. MS says that they will have this 24/7, but >that will only last so long, or the call wait time will increase to a >point that I just don't install it, or I go buy a new copy. That is my >complaint over XP. > The EULA for XP has you agreeing that you will allow them to "upgrade" any of your software at any time without notification or approval by you at the time. So when they decide that it is time for you to pay for whatever is to replace XP they can just "update" a few DLLs so it no longer boots, you have already given your permission. From gerald at ethereal.com Wed Dec 5 02:06:16 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Virus or Not? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The packet is a plain vanilla TCP SYN packet. I'd assume it's benign, but the only way to be sure would be to temporarily spin up a web server on the interal interface so that the HTTP connection can complete, and capture it. On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Jeremy Fowler wrote: > My firewall keeps getting scanned on port 80 from one of the machines on my > network. I thought it was a virus/worm similar to SirCam or CodeRed looking for > an IIS server, but I scanned the PC with two different virus scanners and it > turned up nothing. The firewall is the default gateway for our network so I was > wondering if it's just Internet Explorer scanning for a proxy server. I caught > some of the packets with tcpdump but I can't make heads or tails of it. It's the > exact same packets every time and only this PC is doing it, which makes me very > suspicious. Anyone care to shine some light on this for me? Thanks, -Jeremy > > PS> Anyone get hit from Goner.A today? > > Dec 4 14:17:03 fireball portsentry[14873]: attackalert: TCP SYN/Normal scan > from host: 192.168.100.183/192.168.100.183 to TCP port: 80 > > tcpdump: > 14:26:28.590942 eth1 < 192.168.100.183.1201 > fireball.westrope.com.http: S > 67909477:67909477(0) win 8192 (DF) (ttl 128, id 45040) > 4500 0030 aff0 4000 8006 ffd0 c0a8 64b7 > c0a8 64fe 04b1 0050 040c 3765 0000 0000 > 7002 2000 d7a6 0000 0204 05b4 0101 0402 > > E^@ ^@ 0 .... @^@ ..^F .... .... d.. > .... d.. ^D.. ^@ P ^D^L 7 e ^@^@ ^@^@ > p^B ^@ .... ^@^@ ^B^D ^E.. ^A^A ^D^B > > > > > From Jim at itdepends.com Wed Dec 5 02:21:23 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Meeting problem In-Reply-To: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADD5@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Message-ID: <067d649200205c1FE5@mail5.kc.rr.com> Downtown is a centrally located as we can get. BTW, your directions to Dennys was out of date. From the West Branch it looks like the best way to go will be 20th to Broadway, then 670 around downtown, north then west, then take the HOA bridge north as usual. Perhaps it would be easier to take Broadway all the way up to I 70, then east to HOA. Anybody else have a good route? The Mapquest route looks particularly convoluted. Peace, Jim On Tuesday 04 December 2001 09:50 am, Duston, Hal wrote: > > So, finding a location that is conviently located to all is > not really possible. > From gerald at ethereal.com Wed Dec 5 02:24:53 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: DNS and Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: <3C0D3386.1030100@innovision.com> Message-ID: My /var/db/dhclient.leases says: lease { interface "rl1"; fixed-address 65.26.108.252; option subnet-mask 255.255.254.0; option routers 65.26.108.1; option domain-name-servers 24.94.163.165,24.94.163.113,24.94.163.33; option host-name "dhcp-291-59"; option domain-name "kc.rr.com"; option broadcast-address 255.255.255.255; option dhcp-lease-time 86400; option dhcp-message-type 5; option dhcp-server-identifier 24.94.163.113; renew 3 2001/12/5 08:10:55; rebind 3 2001/12/5 17:10:55; expire 3 2001/12/5 20:10:55; } I have pass in quick on rl1 proto udp from 24.0.0.0/8 to any port = bootpc in my ipf.rules. I'm also running a DNS server on my firewall, so my inside machines don't have to worry about Road Runner's DNS server addresses. On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: > Might be my ipf.rules are blocking DHCP/UDP packets which wouldn't have > been a problem with DSL. I'll have to confirm this. Anyone know the IP > of the RR DHCP server? > > Marvin Bellamy wrote: > > > In-line comments... > > > > ndr wrote: > > > >> > >> On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: > >> > >>> Setup: > >>> OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT > >>> RedHat 7.2 on my desktop, Pentium 500 > >>> > >> > >> Which version of OpenBSD? I have the same setup with RR and it works > >> fine. > >> > > > > > > OpenBSD 2.8. How did you configure your external hostname.if file? I > > just have "dhcp" in mine since I wasn't aware of any other options > > that I'd need. > > > >> > >> > >>> Hey all. I just moved to Praire Village, but with no DSL access I > >>> switched to Road Runner. I reconfigured my external NIC to use DHCP > >>> and the session appears to open successfully. The problem is DNS > >>> isn't working. The resolv.conf file is rewritten with a "search" > >>> on the kc.rr.com domain and the three RR DNS servers as > >>> "nameserver"s. I can ping external IPs, but I just can't resolve > >>> names. I even tried reconfiguring my desktop to use the old DSL > >>> nameservers to no avail. Any suggestions? > >>> > >> > >> Try doing a tcpdump on the external NIC. Are you seeing the DNS traffic > >> getting out? How do you have your NAT setup? Any IPF rules? Does an > >> nslookup timeout or does it return an error immediately? > > > > > > Running tcpdump produced practically no output, and that output did > > not appear to be related to my DNS queries. I saw a few dumps with > > ...arp who-has... that usually referenced my gateway address or > > 24.163.154.160, whatever that is. It isn't one of the DNS servers. > > Are there any different types of packets that DHCP might use that > > would have been blocked by my ipf.rules? My firewall is essentially > > unchanged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From zscoundrel at kc.rr.com Wed Dec 5 04:38:36 2001 From: zscoundrel at kc.rr.com (zscoundrel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: Resolved [Was: Meeting problem] In-Reply-To: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADCE@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Message-ID: <3C0DA5E3.8020704@kc.rr.com> Actually, this is more convienent for me! Duston, Hal wrote: > All, > > OK, I have got us booked into the West Branch of the > Kansas City Missouri Public Library for December 5th > from 6:30 PM until 8:45 PM. > > The address is > > 2017 W. Pennway > Kansas City, MO 64108-2176 > > I will try to get some directions/map up on the web > site today. > > Hal Duston > > I wrote: > >> All, >> >> I have just received a call from the Kansas City Missouri >> Public Library, and they have had a huge water main break >> there. The meeting room will be unusable for up to the >> next 2-3 weeks. Therefore we need to find a temporary >> place to have our December 5th meeting, and possibly >> the December 18th one. Any ideas out there? >> >> Thanks, >> Hal Duston > > > > > -- At 20, I was liberal, because I had nothing to lose and so much to gain. by 40, I was conservative, because I had so much to lose and so little to gain. Isn't it amazing what 20 years of hard work and experience will do for ones' point of view? From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Wed Dec 5 14:28:24 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:45 2004 Subject: DNS and Time Warner Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C0E2EF9.9070802@innovision.com> It was my IPF rules. I was eating the UDP packets. Thx all! Gerald Combs wrote: >My /var/db/dhclient.leases says: > >lease { > interface "rl1"; > fixed-address 65.26.108.252; > option subnet-mask 255.255.254.0; > option routers 65.26.108.1; > option domain-name-servers 24.94.163.165,24.94.163.113,24.94.163.33; > option host-name "dhcp-291-59"; > option domain-name "kc.rr.com"; > option broadcast-address 255.255.255.255; > option dhcp-lease-time 86400; > option dhcp-message-type 5; > option dhcp-server-identifier 24.94.163.113; > renew 3 2001/12/5 08:10:55; > rebind 3 2001/12/5 17:10:55; > expire 3 2001/12/5 20:10:55; >} > >I have > >pass in quick on rl1 proto udp from 24.0.0.0/8 to any port = bootpc > >in my ipf.rules. I'm also running a DNS server on my firewall, so my >inside machines don't have to worry about Road Runner's DNS server >addresses. > > >On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: > >>Might be my ipf.rules are blocking DHCP/UDP packets which wouldn't have >>been a problem with DSL. I'll have to confirm this. Anyone know the IP >>of the RR DHCP server? >> >>Marvin Bellamy wrote: >> >>>In-line comments... >>> >>>ndr wrote: >>> >>>>On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: >>>> >>>>>Setup: >>>>>OpenBSD firewall on a Pentium 133, running IPF and IPNAT >>>>>RedHat 7.2 on my desktop, Pentium 500 >>>>> >>>>Which version of OpenBSD? I have the same setup with RR and it works >>>>fine. >>>> >>> >>>OpenBSD 2.8. How did you configure your external hostname.if file? I >>>just have "dhcp" in mine since I wasn't aware of any other options >>>that I'd need. >>> >>>> >>>>>Hey all. I just moved to Praire Village, but with no DSL access I >>>>>switched to Road Runner. I reconfigured my external NIC to use DHCP >>>>>and the session appears to open successfully. The problem is DNS >>>>>isn't working. The resolv.conf file is rewritten with a "search" >>>>>on the kc.rr.com domain and the three RR DNS servers as >>>>>"nameserver"s. I can ping external IPs, but I just can't resolve >>>>>names. I even tried reconfiguring my desktop to use the old DSL >>>>>nameservers to no avail. Any suggestions? >>>>> >>>>Try doing a tcpdump on the external NIC. Are you seeing the DNS traffic >>>>getting out? How do you have your NAT setup? Any IPF rules? Does an >>>>nslookup timeout or does it return an error immediately? >>>> >>> >>>Running tcpdump produced practically no output, and that output did >>>not appear to be related to my DNS queries. I saw a few dumps with >>>...arp who-has... that usually referenced my gateway address or >>>24.163.154.160, whatever that is. It isn't one of the DNS servers. >>>Are there any different types of packets that DHCP might use that >>>would have been blocked by my ipf.rules? My firewall is essentially >>>unchanged. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > From jared at dctkc.com Wed Dec 5 14:33:29 2001 From: jared at dctkc.com (DCT Jared Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: XP Performance; pleasing the customer Message-ID: <000701c17d99c01a8c0@graphics> > > I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and > > I don't blame you. But your biggest complaint > > I see so far is that it costs money. > > No, my biggest objection is that Microsoft routinely takes over control of > the installation, configuration, and increasingly the operation of their > software. You can't meaningfully control what's installed any more. You're > forced to do things like install not only a web browser but a web server if > you want to run a mail server. Humility would do well, worn on the engine of Microsoft, yet I do not expect it to happen soon. Microsoft has done an extremely good job of predicting everything the customer could ever need, and fulfilling each of those needs, with a single omission: There are some customers, no matter what you give them, will want to take it apart and see how it works, and fix it to do cool things nobody imagined before. Microsoft, by definition, CANNOT satisfy this kind of customer, because they cannot anticipate novel uses of their software. No one can. There is no way to please these customers, except to give them full access, which is precisely what we get with Linux. The ability to give another person the right to all you have, is called humility. It's the only thing MS lacks. -Jared From jegilliland at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 14:33:49 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie Message-ID: I have been following the Win XP debate with interest. I thought I'd throw in my two cents to present a view from a complete Linux newbie who is NOT in IT. I have pretty much decided against upgrading to XP, for many of the reasons elaborated on in the series of emails over the last couple of days. However, I wanted to make a comment on what Thurmond said, quoted below. I completely agree with his views on software installation. I want linux to gain more marked share as much as anyone. However, this will NEVER happen until software installation is greatly simplified, IMHO. For linux to become popular, there will have to be a simple, "a few mouse clicks" type of software installation. The RPM stuff is a good start, but does not go far enough. I expect some will scoff at this and say that linux should not be "dumbed down" but I repeat, linux will NEVER become popular as long as software installation is so complex. Perhaps the solution is some kind of recommended vs. custom install, like in the mandrake distro install. That said, I still intend to move away from windows as much as possible after completing my thesis. Just my ill considered and uninformed opinion, Eric Gilliland On Tue, Dec , at 03:26:47PM -0800, Patrick Thurmond wrote: > I have read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, and slackware. >My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, program >installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the console, but >I have to type in huge strings to execute the commands, that includes >triggers and switches and such. J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From sjohnson at commercial-lithographing.com Wed Dec 5 14:40:37 2001 From: sjohnson at commercial-lithographing.com (Steve Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie Message-ID: Eric, you are exactly right, unfortunately... :) sj -----Original Message----- From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:34 AM To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie I have been following the Win XP debate with interest. I thought I'd throw in my two cents to present a view from a complete Linux newbie who is NOT in IT. I have pretty much decided against upgrading to XP, for many of the reasons elaborated on in the series of emails over the last couple of days. However, I wanted to make a comment on what Thurmond said, quoted below. I completely agree with his views on software installation. I want linux to gain more marked share as much as anyone. However, this will NEVER happen until software installation is greatly simplified, IMHO. For linux to become popular, there will have to be a simple, "a few mouse clicks" type of software installation. The RPM stuff is a good start, but does not go far enough. I expect some will scoff at this and say that linux should not be "dumbed down" but I repeat, linux will NEVER become popular as long as software installation is so complex. Perhaps the solution is some kind of recommended vs. custom install, like in the mandrake distro install. That said, I still intend to move away from windows as much as possible after completing my thesis. Just my ill considered and uninformed opinion, Eric Gilliland On Tue, Dec , at 03:26:47PM -0800, Patrick Thurmond wrote: > I have read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, and slackware. >My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, >program >installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the console, but >I have to type in huge strings to execute the commands, that includes >triggers and switches and such. J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Wed Dec 5 14:44:12 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <20011204232647.67908.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C0E32AD.3080402@innovision.com> Straying OT... The usability of Linux is what's killing it's chances of being a serious contender to Windows. There are a lot of installation show-stoppers that aren't even documented. I had a hell of a time with Redhat just getting AVIs to play, probably two weeks before I found a reference to the gcc2.96 issue. How many people on this list run Linux exclusively? You almost always have to go back to Windoze to get some apps to run easily. M$ is an evil corporate entity, but they got here by opening up the industry to non-techs. Until there is a Linux distro that non-techs can easily use (I mean without relying on a techie friend to troubleshoot), M$ will continue to dominate. I've been screwing around with Linux for about a year now (spending quite a bit of time per week tweaking my desktop), and I have just reached the point that I have all the functionality that I need (less running Win32 apps). KDE is still much slower than Windoze :( Patrick Thurmond wrote: > I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But > your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am > pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a > time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I > follow the directions to the letter (most which require console > commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have read > alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a > software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And I > not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, and > slackware. > > My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, > program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the > console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the commands, > that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin down on XP, > yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new hdd in under 1 > minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really user friendly. I > will always use linux for things like servers and net admin, no prob, > but I am having a heck of a time using it as an everyday desktop. > > -Patrick > > Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > > > I will try to come in December to one of > > the meetings and educate everyone on the > > features of XP. > > I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, and a > very good > way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. > > We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. > > XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Do You Yahoo!? > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping > > . From hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com Wed Dec 5 15:10:29 2001 From: hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com (Duston, Hal) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie Message-ID: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADD9@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] wrote: > > I have been following the Win XP debate with interest. > I thought I'd throw in my two cents to present a view > from a complete Linux newbie who is NOT in IT. I have > pretty much decided against upgrading to XP, for many > of the reasons elaborated on in the series of emails > over the last couple of days. However, I wanted to > make a comment on what Thurmond said, quoted below. > > I completely agree with his views on software > installation. I want Linux to gain more marked share > as much as anyone. However, this will NEVER happen > until software installation is greatly simplified, > IMHO. For Linux to become popular, there will have > to be a simple, "a few mouse clicks" type of software > installation. The RPM stuff is a good start, but > does not go far enough. In some sense this is a chicken-and-egg problem. I don't think there is quite enough desktop Linux usage to have hit "critical mass" yet. Linux is still on the shallow side of the growth curve here. As the desktop growth continues slowly, and more people are continuing to start using Linux, there will be more of a market for companies to sell to. The "ease-of-use" nut is hard to crack, since it is actually quite difficult to even define what it _is_. The are Windows applications that _I_ find difficult to use, since I have to go digging through menus to find the right dialog box that has the tab the contains the button that pops up the other dialog box that has the option I need to change. Some of these are even applications written by Microsoft, so you can't exactly say I'm not using "standard" Windows applications. _I_ find the command line switches and options + text config files to have the highest "ease-of-use" for _myself_ since _everything_ I need to set or change is right there. Basically it is a "flat" hierarchy of options. > I expect some will scoff at this and say that Linux > should not be "dumbed down" but I repeat, Linux will > NEVER become popular as long as software installation > is so complex. Perhaps the solution is some kind of > recommended vs. custom install, like in the mandrake > distro install. This is the other issue that is difficult to solve. Leaving access to all the complete functionality with out intimidating the novice user. Perhaps by providing "reasonable" defaults? Again there is a problem there. What is "reasonable"? For different uses, there would be different values for "reasonable". I expect that once Linux on the desktop hits some "magic" number that companies will be able to sell enough copies that they will be able to really pay people to better solve these issues. Assuming that they are in fact solvable at all. > That said, I still intend to move away from windows > as much as possible after completing my thesis. > > Just my ill considered and uninformed opinion, > > Eric Gilliland > > On Tue, Dec , at 03:26:47PM -0800, Patrick Thurmond wrote: > > > > I have read a lot of inf. on linux and when something > > that should be simple like a software install becomes > > a huge pain, you know something's wrong. And I not > > just talking one distro, I am talking Redhat, Debian, > > Mandrake, and Slackware. My arguments aren't mindless > > or experienceless ones but come on, program installation > > shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the > > console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute > > the commands, that includes triggers and switches and > > such. From ainzerillo at billsoft.com Wed Dec 5 15:18:31 2001 From: ainzerillo at billsoft.com (Andy Inzerillo) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eric, I agree with you. I am, too, a Linux newbie. My first stab at this new world was to set up SuSe Linux 7.1 on an Alpha system. I was going to make it a file server to take some load off of my apps server. The most frustrating part of the installation was trying to decipher the manual that came with the OS. I could not get technical assistance, even though SuSe said the gave 60 day installation support. Instructions laid out in the book did not match what was going on during the install. Web sites listed in the manual are no longer in existence. I finally got it to work after messing around with it for a solid week. All in all the experience was pretty frustrating. My only salvation was asking questions to user groups like this one. I am sure that I will have the opportunity to set up another Linux box in the future. I just hope it goes better next time. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:34 AM To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie I have been following the Win XP debate with interest. I thought I'd throw in my two cents to present a view from a complete Linux newbie who is NOT in IT. I have pretty much decided against upgrading to XP, for many of the reasons elaborated on in the series of emails over the last couple of days. However, I wanted to make a comment on what Thurmond said, quoted below. I completely agree with his views on software installation. I want linux to gain more marked share as much as anyone. However, this will NEVER happen until software installation is greatly simplified, IMHO. For linux to become popular, there will have to be a simple, "a few mouse clicks" type of software installation. The RPM stuff is a good start, but does not go far enough. I expect some will scoff at this and say that linux should not be "dumbed down" but I repeat, linux will NEVER become popular as long as software installation is so complex. Perhaps the solution is some kind of recommended vs. custom install, like in the mandrake distro install. That said, I still intend to move away from windows as much as possible after completing my thesis. Just my ill considered and uninformed opinion, Eric Gilliland On Tue, Dec , at 03:26:47PM -0800, Patrick Thurmond wrote: > I have read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, and slackware. >My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, program >installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the console, but >I have to type in huge strings to execute the commands, that includes >triggers and switches and such. J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From jfowler at westrope.com Wed Dec 5 15:28:58 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: Is open source optimism fading away? Message-ID: Interesting article, many companies are giving up on open source, while a few are still holding on. For those developing on Sourceforge (AMaViS), perhaps you should think of moving development elsewhere. http://www.techrepublic.com/article.jhtml?id=r00220011205cnt01.htm&fromtm=e019 You need to be a member of TechData to read the article, membership only costs the time it takes to fill out the form. -Jeremy From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 5 15:33:25 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06557A@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Duston, Hal [mailto:hdusto01@sprintspectrum.com] > > Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] wrote: > > [snip] > > I completely agree with his views on software > > installation. I want Linux to gain more marked share > > as much as anyone. However, this will NEVER happen > > until software installation is greatly simplified, > > IMHO. For Linux to become popular, there will have > > to be a simple, "a few mouse clicks" type of software > > installation. The RPM stuff is a good start, but > > does not go far enough. > You should all really take a look at Mandrake's software manager! It works very well. Not quite finished though. I have problems upgrading over the internet with it, but if I download the software RPM I want it works fine. This is partly my fault, because I screwed up the first time running the software. (but that's another story) [snip] > > The "ease-of-use" nut is hard to crack, since it is > actually quite difficult to even define what it _is_. > The are Windows applications that _I_ find difficult > to use, since I have to go digging through menus to > find the right dialog box that has the tab the > contains the button that pops up the other > dialog box that has the option I need to change. [rant] I took me ten minutes this morning to modify my Outlook signature file! Why because they bury it deep in some strange black hole in Outlook! Can you get to it from inside an email message? No! You can pull it up, but No you can't edit it here! It's under some stupid "mail format tab" in the main window only you get to from the options pull down! Not under general preferences or ... [/rant] Grrrr! By the Way I use Linux exclusively at home on the desktop and on my server. I have used Windoze for one thing in the past year, to create business cards. Only because one I paid for a Windoze DTP several years back that did what I needed, and two I couldn't figure it out on Linux in the time I allotted myself. Yes, there is still much that Linux needs to be truly "user friendly". That is again the chicken/egg problem. No one wants to write it until there is a base for it, and there is no base for it because no one has written it. HSFYA, Brian From edelman at speedscript.com Wed Dec 5 15:36:16 2001 From: edelman at speedscript.com (Richard Edelman) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: EULAs (Was: Re: XP Performance) In-Reply-To: <200112050157.TAA20647@sky.net> Message-ID: <20011205153554Z176430-13136+1@thor.valueweb.net> A while back I found somewhere on the Kansas government website a law/statute regarding End User Licensing Agreements. Basically, the law states that if before the transaction (exchange of money) takes place, you cannot see all the licensing agreements/contracts, a sale has taken place. As such, any EULA is void, and you can do whatever you wish with the software; it's yours. However, if you are able to see all the agreements/contracts, regardless of if you read them or not, a sale has not taken place; you are licensing the software and are bound by the EULA. Now, being as most software with EULAs are of the click-through type, that software is yours and the EULA carries no weight at all. I was quite surprised when I saw this law, but I have a feeling many companies don't know about it at all, nor do they entirely care. Of course, IANAL. Rich On Tuesday 04 December 2001 07:57 pm, Edgar Allen wrote: > >them know I'm there. The worst part is I reinstall my PC and change > >hardware all the time, and this will require me to call a support phone > >number to get a new key. MS says that they will have this 24/7, but > >that will only last so long, or the call wait time will increase to a > >point that I just don't install it, or I go buy a new copy. That is my > >complaint over XP. > > The EULA for XP has you agreeing that you will allow them to "upgrade" > any of your software at any time without notification or approval by you > at the time. > > So when they decide that it is time for you to pay for whatever is to > replace XP they can just "update" a few DLLs so it no longer boots, you > have already given your permission. > > From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 5 15:42:29 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: Simple Installs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c17da3db404a07960c0a@uhc.com> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Gilliland" > I completely agree with his views on software installation. I want linux to > gain more marked share as much as anyone. However, this will NEVER happen > until software installation is greatly simplified, IMHO. For linux to > become popular, there will have to be a simple, "a few mouse clicks" type of > software installation. The RPM stuff is a good start, but does not go far > enough. If you read the IT news pages (which you indicate you don't), you'll see articles about how one of the main contributors to security problems is exactly that, the "few mouse clicks" dumbed down installation of complex, crucial software. It's essentially giving someone else complete responsibility for how your computer is set up, and refusing all knowledge. Linux still forces you to learn something about the software in order to install it. It doesn't do this in a particularly deliberate, coherent, or effective way, but it does it. You may end up learning things about some obscure "C" library that are more relevant to programming than to running the software, but eventually the bits start to form a pattern, and you start to understand how it all fits together. I don't having Linux on every idiot's desktop is a valid goal for Linux advocacy. For the people who really don't want to know anything about their systems there will always be Microsoft, and it will continue to thrive by serving those interests. Linux is, and should continue to be, for people who want to become a little more involved in the system. There's certainly a place for it on the unenlightened user's desktop in the context of a managed site where someone, but not the end user, knows the details of the installation. In this kind of environment, you don't WANT users installing software with a few mouse clicks - you want IT installing the software through remote management tools, and the users keeping der cotton-picken-fingers outen den springenwerks. This brings up one of the problems with MS software - even well trained MS Professionals often don't really know how the software can be configured and/or controlled. I'm an MCP, I've been a part of the MS Marketing System, and there are configuration issues I still pull my hair out over - some things that you just can't do, because someone in MS decided to bury it deep in some binary file, and some other wag decided to delete the configuration tool from the package. From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 5 15:51:05 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: Software Management In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06557A@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <002201c17da47960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Densmore" > You should all really take a look at Mandrake's software manager! It > works very well. Not quite finished though. I'll say. Even though it effectively "works" as of the 8.1 release, it still has major problems. Updating the databse takes WAY to long, even when doing local updates or updating over a hot broadband link. It eats LOTS of CPU while updating. It also fails in much the same way that RPMFIND fails, it will eventually become confused about the dependencies of updates, and will start listing all the software you just installed off the update CD as new, uninstalled, available, and/or required updates. Part of this is the fact that Mandrake relies on voluntary mirrors like RPMFIND to maintain the list of updatable files. If one of the sites doesn't follow the prescribed protocol for listing the new files, it breaks the database. They've also fallen down badly on updates in general. Ximian, Gnome, KDE, Mozilla, and Netscape all have relesed updates with major functionality improvements since 8.1 was released, but none of the updates is available through Mandrake or through the Software Manager. Still not ready for "prime time" in my book. Your only real option is to use raw command line RPM, do your own web searches for update packages, and track your own dependencies. From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 5 15:51:13 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:46 2004 Subject: EULAs (Was: Re: XP Performance) Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A28@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Edelman [mailto:edelman@speedscript.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:36 AM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: EULAs (Was: Re: XP Performance) > > > A while back I found somewhere on the Kansas government > website a law/statute > regarding End User Licensing Agreements. Basically, the law > states that if > before the transaction (exchange of money) takes place, you > cannot see all > the licensing agreements/contracts, a sale has taken place. > As such, any EULA > is void, and you can do whatever you wish with the software; > it's yours. [snip] Yes, The California Federal District court (next stop US Supreme), recently ruled exactly this in the "other" DMCA case. Basically they said 'It's a sale stupid.' Brian From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 5 15:52:42 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: EULAs (Was: Re: XP Performance) In-Reply-To: <20011205153554Z176430-13136+1@thor.valueweb.net> Message-ID: <002701c17da47960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Edelman" > Now, being as most software with EULAs are of the click-through type, that > software is yours and the EULA carries no weight at all. I think this has been to the courts, the companies make the ELUA's available on their website, and have a statement on the package that licensing information is available at blah address or by mail, and that coveres them. From jfowler at westrope.com Wed Dec 5 15:56:44 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yeah, but didn't it give you a certain sense of satisfaction and gratification when you finally figured it out? Kind of like a puzzle that needed to be solved. Call me crazy and diluted, but I enjoy trying to figure out why some program won't compile or learning why I need a certain library. I believe that these are the trials and tribulations that every Linux newbie must cut their teeth on. There are so many dumb Windows users out there and when Windows works the way it should, no problem. But if something goes wrong and their Windows program doesn't autostart when they put the CDROM in the drive, who are they going to call to find out how to install the program from the Start|Run command? Windows spoon feeds these people and it makes them lazy and they get into this mindset that all things in life should be easy. Life is NOT easy and to get anything of quality out of life you have to work for it. Linux is a good thing because it makes you learn how to use it, all of it. It doesn't spoon feed you, it kicks you out of the nest and makes you fly or die. Linux is Life. -Jeremy > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Inzerillo [mailto:ainzerillo@billsoft.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:19 AM > To: Eric Gilliland; kclug@kclug.org > Subject: RE: the viewpoint of a single newbie > > > Eric, > > I agree with you. > > I am, too, a Linux newbie. My first stab at this new world was to set up > SuSe Linux 7.1 on an Alpha system. I was going to make it a file server to > take some load off of my apps server. The most frustrating part of the > installation was trying to decipher the manual that came with the OS. I > could not get technical assistance, even though SuSe said the gave 60 day > installation support. Instructions laid out in the book did not match what > was going on during the install. Web sites listed in the manual are no > longer in existence. I finally got it to work after messing around with it > for a solid week. All in all the experience was pretty frustrating. > > My only salvation was asking questions to user groups like this one. I am > sure that I will have the opportunity to set up another Linux box in the > future. I just hope it goes better next time. > > Andy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:34 AM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie > > > I have been following the Win XP debate with interest. I thought I'd throw > in my two cents to present a view from a complete Linux newbie who is NOT in > IT. I have pretty much decided against upgrading to XP, for many of the > reasons elaborated on in the series of emails over the last couple of days. > However, I wanted to make a comment on what Thurmond said, quoted below. > > I completely agree with his views on software installation. I want linux to > gain more marked share as much as anyone. However, this will NEVER happen > until software installation is greatly simplified, IMHO. For linux to > become popular, there will have to be a simple, "a few mouse clicks" type of > software installation. The RPM stuff is a good start, but does not go far > enough. > > I expect some will scoff at this and say that linux should not be "dumbed > down" but I repeat, linux will NEVER become popular as long as software > installation is so complex. Perhaps the solution is some kind of > recommended vs. custom install, like in the mandrake distro install. > > That said, I still intend to move away from windows as much as possible > after completing my thesis. > > Just my ill considered and uninformed opinion, > > Eric Gilliland > > On Tue, Dec , at 03:26:47PM -0800, Patrick Thurmond wrote: > > > I have read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple > like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And > I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, and > slackware. > >My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, program > >installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the console, but > >I have to type in huge strings to execute the commands, that includes > >triggers and switches and such. > > > J. Eric Gilliland > jegilliland@hotmail.com > Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. > Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > > From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 5 16:01:03 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: Software Management In-Reply-To: <002201c17da47960c0a@uhc.com> Message-ID: <003001c17da57960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Hutchins" > Updating the databse takes WAY to long... I realise that I wasn't clear on this, I mean that updating the list of available/instlled files, updating sources, takes way to long. Actually getting and installing a package works quite well. Finding a new package or an update is the problem. From edelman at speedscript.com Wed Dec 5 16:02:29 2001 From: edelman at speedscript.com (Richard Edelman) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: EULAs (Was: Re: XP Performance) In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A28@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <20011205160208Z176489-22975+1@thor.valueweb.net> On Wednesday 05 December 2001 09:46 am, Brian Densmore wrote: > Yes, > The California Federal District court (next stop US Supreme), > recently ruled exactly this in the "other" DMCA case. > Basically they said 'It's a sale stupid.' That makes the most sense. I've always looked at any EULA as silly and not worth the screen real estate it's displayed on (or the paper it's printed on, if it's also included in a manual or other peice of paper in the box). I never did understand how someone could be bound by terms they only find out after the started installing the software they bought. It's pretty much common sense in the business world that you can't hide part of the contract from the client until after the sale is final. That would be like buying a car, and as you're ready to drive it off the lot the salesperson says to you "You can do anything you want with the car you just paid $30,000 for except drive it." Rich From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 5 16:51:29 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004501c17dad3ffccf07960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Fowler" > Windows spoon feeds these people and it makes them > lazy and they get into this mindset that all things in life > should be easy. Life is NOT easy and to get anything of > quality out of life you have to work for it. Not that this is an invalid philosophy, but it doesn't really apply to computers. I work for a Health Care company, and the people here do NOT need to develop more than basic computer skills - running the programs and keeping track of where they save their files. They don't need to learn the background required to understand installation and configuration issues. What they do need is to take the issues seriously enough to hire a professional speciallist who does know these things (that would be me). Unfortunately, one of the things Microsoft has done (whether deliberately or not) is to promote the image that if you have Microsoft, you don't need no stinkin' geeks to run your computer. Way too many people think that because they're engineers, or because they're The Boss, they know everything they need to configure and maintain not only their network workstations but the "server" as well. (The server turns out to be another W96 workstation that's been set up in a closet with shared drives.) Then when something goes wrong, they call in a pro and are dismayed to hear that they need to completely re-design the network and contract a professional manager for it. Even without Microsoft, the popularity of the "home computer" would continue to make this problem worse. What used to be the pride of the dedicated amatuer is now on Mom's kitchen counter and in every playroom. Yeah, they're supposed to evolve into disposable appliances with no user serviceable parts in order to keep the idjits from creating their own problems, but as long as they can install their own software they're going to be able to do it badly. (Game cartridges may be the answer here, and the future "home computer" may very well be a PS2, not a PS/2 for this very reason.) From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Wed Dec 5 17:29:18 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie In-Reply-To: <004501c17dad3ffccf07960c0a@uhc.com> Message-ID: <20011205112912.C5578@katya> On Wed, Dec , at 10:51:25AM -0600, Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > Even without Microsoft, the popularity of the "home computer" would continue > to make this problem worse. What used to be the pride of the dedicated > amatuer is now on Mom's kitchen counter and in every playroom. Yeah, > they're supposed to evolve into disposable appliances with no user > serviceable parts in order to keep the idjits from creating their own > problems, but as long as they can install their own software they're going > to be able to do it badly. (Game cartridges may be the answer here, and the > future "home computer" may very well be a PS2, not a PS/2 for this very > reason.) > You wont't see PC's go away. You will see more disposable apliances that my father-in-law will use, because all he wants is stock quotes, email, and cards. People like most of those on this list want allot more than a disposable non-customized box will give them. It will probably drive the prices of PC hardware back up once these things gain popularity. -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 5 17:32:17 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: the viewpoint of a single newbie Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06557C@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeremy Fowler [mailto:jfowler@westrope.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:59 AM > To: Andy Inzerillo; Eric Gilliland; kclug@kclug.org > Subject: RE: the viewpoint of a single newbie > > > Yeah, but didn't it give you a certain sense of satisfaction > and gratification > when you finally figured it out? Kind of like a puzzle that [snip rest of good philosophy of life] Unfortunately, many people are afraid of technological devices. (With good reason) My wife included, and she hates puzzles. Sorry, we disagree. I would like to see Linux as easy to setup, configure and use as possible. I would like to see configure with sane defaults, which means in a very paranoid state. Then when someone tried to do something, like share a file or start a webserver. They would specifically have to "learn" the consequences involved by specifically turning off security settings and turning on services, etc. Yes, spoon feed them, but spoon feed them knowledge not stupid little talking paper clips. I'm not sure what this would cost Linux as an OS. Brian From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 5 17:38:39 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: xinetd and ftp Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A2B@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeremy Fowler [mailto:jfowler@westrope.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:46 AM > To: Brian Densmore > Subject: RE: xinetd and ftp > > > Yeah, Redhat just released a new rpm for wu-ftp just the > other day to fix some > vulnerability. However, I just use it internally on our > network and there is no > outside access to it. However, I may have to set something up > in the future. > What ftp server would you recommend? > Below is a link to the one I plan on implementing. I am currently using openssh "sftp". Which isn't a true ftp server, but it works and runs over ssl. http://pureftpd.sourceforge.net/ It has gotten good reviews. Any out there ever tried it? Brian From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 5 19:03:37 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: Server speed Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A2C@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> WHOO HOO! I finally got my webserver to kick in. It seems my 3Com Vortex 10/100 Mbit NIC has been EEPROM crippled in 10MBit half-duplex mode. I swapped that with one from home that isn't. Now my webserver comes up in 100Mbit full-duplex [thanks to those wonderful gurus on the Vortex mailing list]. Now I can begin to see where I am taking performance hits. It seems my web-mail reader is somewhat faster now, but not as fast as I'd like. Anyone know any utilities I could use to determine whether the bottleneck is the python code or RAM or HD? TIA, Brian Densmore Associate mailto:densmoreb@ctbsonline.com CompuTech Business Solutions, Inc. http://www.ctbsonline.com/ (816) 880-0988 x215 From jegilliland at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 19:39:11 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate Message-ID: >I would like to see Linux as easy to setup, configure and use as >possible. I would like to see configure with sane defaults, which means >in a very paranoid state. Then when someone tried to do something, like >share a file or start a webserver. They would specifically have to >"learn" the consequences involved by specifically turning off security >settings and turning on services, etc. Yes, spoon feed them, but spoon >feed them knowledge not stupid little talking paper clips. I like this idea a lot. Although this might be a minority opinion in this forum, I think that ease of use is NOT a dirty word. I'm not saying everything has to be simple, but in the grand scheme of things easier is better. >Yeah, but didn't it give you a certain sense of satisfaction and > >gratification when you finally figured it out? Kind of like a puzzle > >that needed to be solved. Call me crazy and diluted, but I enjoy >trying >to figure out why some program won't compile or learning why I >need a >certain library. OK, you're crazy and diluted, or did you mean deluded? ;-) Seriously, I did feel a feeling of accomplishment when I edited my lilo.conf file to make my computer boot properly, but, honestly, it did not outweigh the frustration of not having it work correctly in the first place. On the plus side, I did install mandrake 8.0 on my 'puter with only the one small lilo.conf problem, so that was an improvement. Of course, this was after about 2 weeks of internet researcha nd reading up on it. The thing is, not everyone has time to do that kind of research. Some people just want to install their software and use it, not read listserve archives and the LDP for hours to solve a problem. If linux is going to make any headway it is going to have to make some moves in this direction. And I don't buy the line about life being hard, BTW. If this is so (and it certainly isn't for everyone) it seems all the more reason to make as many aspects of it as simple as possible. Just my opinion, Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From crash3m at yahoo.com Wed Dec 5 20:19:44 2001 From: crash3m at yahoo.com (crash3m) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: freebsd-stable Message-ID: <01120514172101.15282@localhost.localdomain> Does anyone have an extra copy of freebsd-stable they could bring tonight? I'm planning on upgrading my FBSD 4.2 system but don't want to take the time to download it all. I'd be more than glad to bring a blank cdr in return. Thanks, Matt _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From jfowler at westrope.com Wed Dec 5 20:52:19 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > OK, you're crazy and diluted, or did you mean deluded? ;-) Seriously, I did > feel a feeling of accomplishment when I edited my lilo.conf file to make my > computer boot properly, but, honestly, it did not outweigh the frustration > of not having it work correctly in the first place. On the plus side, I did > install mandrake 8.0 on my 'puter with only the one small lilo.conf problem, > so that was an improvement. Of course, this was after about 2 weeks of > internet researcha nd reading up on it. Nope not deluded as in to mislead, deceive, or beguile. Rather I meant what I said, diluted; as in not quite all there, absent of mind, or whacked. ;-) Hey, I'm all for things working right the first time, and I can empathize with your frustration. I've been there myself. However, I doubt I would know as much as I do now if things were that easy. I think the biggest weakness with Linux is the old "Too many cooks" cliché. You get all these developers all over the world adding and changing code at amazing speed in all these various open source applications it's almost impossible to keep up with. Add to that all the different configurations available and the sheer number of choices a person has. Sendmail, qmail, or postfix; wu-ftp, ftpd or pure-ftpd; KDE, Gnome, or Enlightenment. Name a service, job, or function and there will be three or four choices to choose from and all of these programs are supposed to work together flawlessly the first time? Hogwash! The reason everything (for the most part) installs and runs as expected on Windows is that Windows is the only OS configuration the developers ever have to test on. Where as in Linux, you have dozens of distributions with hundreds of possible configurations. Now how on earth is anyone able to keep up with that? As far as I'm concerned, the Linux community as a whole does a very good job at it. The only feasible way is to limit choices a person has. By saying you have to use such and such distro with such and such version with a such and such configuration or your SOL. Which I seriously doubt will ever happen. Linux users love the choices they have, that's one of the reasons we love it so. If one app doesn't work for me I choose something else. Where as Microsoft your stuck with pretty much what you get, or maybe a one or two other less used choices. > > The thing is, not everyone has time to do that kind of research. Some > people just want to install their software and use it, not read listserve > archives and the LDP for hours to solve a problem. If linux is going to > make any headway it is going to have to make some moves in this direction. > And I don't buy the line about life being hard, BTW. If this is so (and it > certainly isn't for everyone) it seems all the more reason to make as many > aspects of it as simple as possible. Linux is making headway, or haven't you been keeping up with current events? ;-) I was exaggerating in my rant to stress a point. Linux isn't for everyone; Love it, leave it, or fix it. Those are your choices. We can talk until we are blue in the face about how better it would be if Linux just did better. Very few people actually go out and make a difference by implementing it. I don't mean to chastise and you all make good points. Like the saying goes, Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. -J From nicold at umkc.edu Wed Dec 5 20:54:01 2001 From: nicold at umkc.edu (David Nicol) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: Virus or Not? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C0E8961.3E8B10E6@umkc.edu> Gerald Combs wrote: > > The packet is a plain vanilla TCP SYN packet. I'd assume it's benign, but > the only way to be sure would be to temporarily spin up a web server on > the interal interface so that the HTTP connection can complete, and > capture it. A web server is overkill. A simple program to listen at the socket and save whatever arrives to a file would do. Something like faucet from the netpipes package, or write a simple server based on the examples in perldoc perlipc. #!/usr/bin/perl -Tw use strict; use Socket; use Carp; my $EOL = "015012"; sub logmsg { print "$0 $$: @_ at ", scalar localtime, "n" } my $port = 80; my $proto = getprotobyname('tcp'); socket(Server, PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, $proto) || die "socket: $!"; setsockopt(Server, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, pack("l", 1)) || die "setsockopt: $!"; bind(Server, sockaddr_in($port, INADDR_ANY)) || die "bind: $!"; listen(Server,SOMAXCONN) || die "listen: $!"; logmsg "server started on port $port"; my $paddr; $SIG{CHLD} = &REAPER; for ( ; $paddr = accept(Client,Server); close Client) { my($port,$iaddr) = sockaddr_in($paddr); my $name = gethostbyaddr($iaddr,AF_INET); logmsg "connection from $name [", inet_ntoa($iaddr), "] at port $port"; while(){print "$_n"}; print Client "Content-Type text/nonsense${EOL}", "${EOL}jsgl;kjg;uhiubas${EOL}"; close Server, Client; } From jegilliland at hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 21:29:30 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate Message-ID: >Linux is making headway, or haven't you been keeping up with current > >events? ;-) I was exaggerating in my rant to stress a point. Linux >isn't >for everyone; Love it, leave it, or fix it. Those are your >choices. But I cannot fix it, I am not a programmer. And I do love it. You refer to linux users as if I am not one, but I am. I am just still learning and saving for a linux compatible modem. >We can talk until we are blue in the face about how better it would >be if >Linux just did better. Very few people actually >go out and >make a difference by implementing it. I don't mean to >chastise and you all >make good points. Like the saying goes, opinions >are like assholes, >everyone's got one. -J And they all stink! Please so not take it personally, because it is not meant that way, but I detect (and I am not refering to anyone in particular, but to a general feeling) a shade of the old "I was into that band (OS, app, resturant, whatever) before it got popular." attitude. I think some linux users DON'T want it to become more popular because it will no longer be "cool". Any comments? Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From era at sky.net Wed Dec 5 21:40:36 2001 From: era at sky.net (Edgar Allen) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: EULAs (Was: Re: XP Performance) Message-ID: <200112052140.PAA07155@sky.net> [...] >common sense in the business world that you can't hide part of the contract >from the client until after the sale is final. That would be like buying a >car, and as you're ready to drive it off the lot the salesperson says to you >"You can do anything you want with the car you just paid $30,000 for except >drive it." > It seems to me that yhe XP clause having you agree to accept any changes MS sees fit to install removes the ability to depend on any other clauses not being changed after you have installed and been running for some time, like whatever MS thinks is a resonable "lifetime" being the point where deactivation occurs. Such a one sided "contract" seems overreaching to me and therefore should be null to begin with. From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Wed Dec 5 22:13:08 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: EULAs (Was: Re: XP Performance) In-Reply-To: <200112052140.PAA07155@sky.net> Message-ID: <3C0E9BE5.7080703@innovision.com> Unfortunately, I'm afraid our politicians have sold out. I wasn't aware of this until last week, but apparently M$ has been giving multi-million dollar discounts on their software to state governments. Coincidentally, there's also a lot less pressure on the court system for stiffer penalties. M$ certainly knows they're "home free" since their monopolistic practices picked right back up early this year... Very scary to think that with enough money, you're immune to justice in this country :( Edgar Allen wrote: > [...] > >>common sense in the business world that you can't hide part of the contract >> >>from the client until after the sale is final. That would be like buying a > >>car, and as you're ready to drive it off the lot the salesperson says to you >>"You can do anything you want with the car you just paid $30,000 for except >>drive it." >> >It seems to me that yhe XP clause having you agree to accept any >changes MS sees fit to install removes the ability to depend on any >other clauses not being changed after you have installed and been >running for some time, like whatever MS thinks is a resonable >"lifetime" being the point where deactivation occurs. > >Such a one sided "contract" seems overreaching to me and therefore >should be null to begin with. > > > > From era at sky.net Wed Dec 5 22:13:19 2001 From: era at sky.net (Edgar Allen) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate Message-ID: <200112052213.QAA10860@sky.net> > >Please so not take it personally, because it is not meant that way, but I >detect (and I am not refering to anyone in particular, but to a general >feeling) a shade of the old "I was into that band (OS, app, resturant, >whatever) before it got popular." attitude. I think some linux users DON'T >want it to become more popular because it will no longer be "cool". Any >comments? > Nobody is trying to hold you back Eric. The only one who knows what is important for you to learn is you. We cannot point you to a path which will minimize your effort and maximize your speed of learning what you need to know. It is the same for the millions who will follow you. You will not be able to spoon feed them and they will complain how difficult the path is no matter what you do. All we can do is answer questions occasionally and try to make mistakes less lethal. But this is like fire, useful but dangerous if you ignore warnings. There is no "list of everthing needing warnings" and never will be. There is no way to obtain instant knowledge of everything you will eventually need to know. Common citizens do not attempt to put out large fires or do major repairs on any form of technology. We have "appliance operators" and professionals in every technology more advanced than flint knives why do you think computers should be different ? From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Wed Dec 5 22:37:02 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate In-Reply-To: <200112052213.QAA10860@sky.net> Message-ID: <20011205163656.F5578@katya> Let me define ease-of-use. Ease of use is me not having to get off my fat a$$ when I get a phone call from friends and family who affectionatly call me a guru without having a clue what I do. None of these people care what they run as long as they can do what they want. I would convert all of them to linux except the gamers right now if I could because of its ease-of-use. Drop some pretty icons on thier brightly colored background, and they are happy. I never get calls from the gamers, because they aren't patient enough to wait for me, and figure it out. I have started my grand experiment with myself running linux at work, and only using standard rpm's and mandrakes software manager to install software, which by the way is way out of character for me, and am getting ready to convert my wife. She is excited because she will be able to play the kde games that she likes, so she will be easy. She is your typical active user. She reads email, writes documents, and surfs the web. Once she is converted, I will be able to fix problems she has from work over ssh, rather than telling her "ok now click the thing in the top left corner and ... no the other thing...doh!!!!!" if you know what I mean. Next comes my cousin, and all my friends. Most of them like the idea, because they don't have to go get the latest greatest computer to function reasonably. > All we can do is answer questions occasionally and try to make mistakes less > lethal. But this is like fire, useful but dangerous if you ignore warnings. > There is no "list of everthing needing warnings" and never will be. > > There is no way to obtain instant knowledge of everything you will eventually > need to know. Common citizens do not attempt to put out large fires or do > major repairs on any form of technology. We have "appliance operators" and > professionals in every technology more advanced than flint knives why do you > think computers should be different ? -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 5 23:08:41 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C914C@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > The thing is, not everyone has time to do that kind of > research. Some people just want to install their software > and use it, not read listserve archives and the LDP for > hours to solve a problem. And for those people there's Microsoft. From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Wed Dec 5 23:46:32 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C914C@CAVERN> Message-ID: <20011205174626.G5578@katya> On Wed, Dec , at 05:04:39PM -0600, Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > > > The thing is, not everyone has time to do that kind of > > research. Some people just want to install their software > > and use it, not read listserve archives and the LDP for > > hours to solve a problem. > Are we talking server apps here? Or are we talking desktop apps. I have never had to do any research on getting a desktop app running from RPM, unless the thing is alpha-release or early-beta. Scenario: Jason opens Mandrake Software Manger -> Jason types word in search box -> jason selects Abiword from results -> jason clicks install -> jason clicks next a couple of times -> jason clicks finish -> jason goes to gnome or kde menu and finds applciation put nicely in one of the menus and clicks it -> jason writes a document. elapsed time 3-5 min Next scenario: Jason puts ms office cd in drive -> jason is presented with license key, and his dyslexic a$$ cannot seem to type it in right -> jason breaks keyboard -> jason realizes he has no extra and store is closed -> jason goes to store next evening after work -> jason still doesn't get code for 5 more tries -> jason is presented with a couple hundred options that don't seem to make any sense -> jason installs them all -> jason is presented with a dialog 30 minutes later that he is out of drive space -> jason picks fewer options -> an hour later the install is finished -> jason reboots -> jason goes to start menu that is has 300 items because all software just dumps its icon it it -> jason calls geek friend to be reminded how to put one of those picture thingys on the main screen, yea the one with the picture of the corona girls -> jason double clicks on picture thingy -> jason answers a few personal questions -> jason connects to the internet -> jason forgets what he is doing after he sees the pron pop-ups -> jason goes back to word and starts to type his document -> jason is prompted for his cd to install one of the features he deselected to make room for the installation -> jason finishes document. elapsed time 3-5 days now which scenario sounds easier to you -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From mdistefano at mjtek.com Thu Dec 6 00:21:14 2001 From: mdistefano at mjtek.com (Mike Distefano) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C914C@CAVERN> Message-ID: <000e01c17debd1b8ea0a42d50a@www.sprint.com> > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > > > The thing is, not everyone has time to do that kind of > > research. Some people just want to install their software > > and use it, not read listserve archives and the LDP for > > hours to solve a problem. > > And for those people there's Microsoft. > But it shouldn't have to be just Microsoft!!!! From Jim at itdepends.com Thu Dec 6 04:41:46 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <084ee22410406c1FE4@mail4.kc.rr.com> There is a new distro called "Redmond Linux" (redmondlinux.org) that does just what Jeremy is saying. It limits the choices, dumbs down the OS so that a typical Windoze user can handle it. It will be interesting to watch this to see how it turns out. Peace, Love, and Linux, Jim On Wednesday 05 December 2001 02:54 pm, Jeremy Fowler wrote: > community as a whole does a very good job at it. The only feasible way is > to limit choices a person has. By saying you have to use such and such > distro with such and such version with a such and such configuration or > ... From Jim at itdepends.com Thu Dec 6 05:11:31 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate In-Reply-To: <000e01c17debd1b8ea0a42d50a@www.sprint.com> Message-ID: <08b6c46100506c1FE7@mail7.kc.rr.com> Here's the way I see it, and the reason, or at least one (or two) of the reasons that I got into using Linux. I think that it's only been within the last year that linux distros have gotten to the point that they are usable by "power users" meaning those that know the difference between AOL and the Internet, or that know what the word "Operating System" means. I think that the latest distros are perfectly usable for reasonably competent, computer literate citizens. I think that for the regular users (those who don't know that AOL or MSN is not required to gain access to the internet) to ever be able to use Linux, it must come preinstalled on a computer that you can buy at Best Buy or Wal-Mart. Everything all setup and working, and plug and play and all that. Yes, Linux has a ways to go before "dumbed-down" versions like that are widely available, but this is only a matter of time. We're talking probably months, not years. I got into Linux, because I see it having a really good, sound, technologically superior base to start from, with a distribution model that can't be stopped. I see it in five years being a major force in the computing world. In the home as well as in the enterprise. Now, in five years when companies start looking for data base administrators with Linux experience and paying $100 an hour (or more) for the priviledge of using that knowledge and experience because they can't find anyone else that has that knowledge, I want to be there and be ready to take advantage of the situation. I have never been one to rest on the knowledge I have, because I know that in five years, it will be obsolete. If I want to continue to grow my career, I need to continue to grow my knowledge. Right now Linux is a puzzle to be figured out, a skill to be gained, knowledge to be acquired. I'm willing to bet my career that the effort that I put into learning all I can about Linux right know will pay off down the road. Yes there are still rough edges to be polished, but when you consider how far KDE, for example, has come in just four years, I can't wait to see where it's going to go in the next four years. I will guarantee you the advances of open source projects will far outstrip any advances coming out of Redmond (I'm not talking about the new distro here either) :-). The other reason I have come to Linux, and this is the moral or philosophical reason, is that I simply refuse to be quietly assimilated by the MS-Borg. I will not go gently into that good night! I will fight for the right to live in Freedom! Peace, Love, and Linux, Jim Herrmann From davideng at ponyexpress.net Thu Dec 6 05:40:57 2001 From: davideng at ponyexpress.net (David P. Engvall) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: Tonight's Meeting Message-ID: <3C0F05C5.A945D9E3@ponyexpress.net> kclug I made a college effort to find the meeting tonight armed with a good KC map ant the Google map from the kclug web site. I spent about 45 minutes cruising the neighborhoods but I didn't find the place or even come close. There are a lot of unmarked roads around there that I didn't know existed. I will try again next time. Take Care, Dave From crash3m at yahoo.com Thu Dec 6 07:26:47 2001 From: crash3m at yahoo.com (crash3m) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: HappyHacking LUG discount Message-ID: <01120601241802.15282@localhost.localdomain> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: HappyHacking LUG discount From: Tomomi Kozin To: crash3m@yahoo.com Cc: Paul Kitagawa , Wako Sakurai Hi, In thanks for your continued support of the Linux revolution, we'd like to offer LUG members worldwide $20 OFF ANY HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD Model! (FOR EVERY 5 BOARDS YOUR LUG MEMBERS PURCHASE, WE WILL DONATE 1 HHK LITE!!!) HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD LITE $29.00 (PS/2 ONLY) HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD LITE 2 $49.00 (USB or PS/2 model) ORIGINAL HAPPY HACKING MULTI-PLATFORM MODEL $119.00 (PS/2, SUN, ADB cables included!!!) See our website for more product info: www.pfuca.com Please place all orders by Tel. / Fax. or email to pai-info@pfuca.com and write LUG Promo Sale in the subject. A confirmation email/invoice (sales tax applicable) will be sent w/in 1 business day to confirm your order, and payment type. We accept VISA/MC, money orders, or a personal check (which must be rec'd before we ship out products). See why they call the Happy Hacking Keyboard, THE LINUX KEYBOARD! Best Rgrds, Tomomi *************** Tomomi Kozin PFU America, Inc. mail: pai-info@pfuca.com 3350 Scott Blvd. Bldg. 34-B Toll free: 1-888-681-8878 Santa Clara, CA 95054 Tel: 408-327-1700 URL: www.pfuca.com Fax: 408-327-1701 ***************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From mtpratt at swbell.net Thu Dec 6 13:45:35 2001 From: mtpratt at swbell.net (Michael Pratt) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: apache Message-ID: <000a01c17e5c/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bashad84080/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bash201a8c0@muldersworld> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_rE4WRjfZlLTVp/MyQ+zETw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT what is the config option in the httpd.conf for allowing ~user to use the web? --Boundary_(ID_rE4WRjfZlLTVp/MyQ+zETw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
what is the config option in the httpd.conf for allowing ~user to use the web?
--Boundary_(ID_rE4WRjfZlLTVp/MyQ+zETw)-- From jegilliland at hotmail.com Thu Dec 6 13:48:30 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: contrition Message-ID: >Are we talking server apps here? Or are we talking desktop apps. I >have >never had to do any research on getting a desktop app running from RPM, >unless the thing is alpha-release or early-beta. OK, I'd forgotten about the Mandrake software manager. I partially retract that statement, because installing anything from the distro discs using software manager is great. I have run into problems installing things not included in the package. There is probably a way to install non distro things using the software manager, but I couldn't find it. To be honest, however, I haven't spent much time working with it, because I am very busy now. >Nobody is trying to hold you back Eric. The only one who knows what is >important for you to learn is you. We cannot point you to a path which >will minimize your effort and maximize your speed of learning what you need >to know. > >It is the same for the millions who will follow you. You will not be >able >to spoon feed them and they will complain how difficult the path >is no >matter what you do. I don't at all feel that anyone is trying to hold me back. I did not mean to give that impression. I agree with the comments above. I am not defending MS here either. If I was a huge MS lover I would not be experimenting with linux. I am planning to move to linux for everything except games in a couple of months when my thesis is done. I was kind of playing the devil's advocate here, in part because I wanted to see how people would react, as I am new to this forum and know no one. >I think that for the regular users (those who don't know >that AOL or MSN is not required to gain access to the internet) to >ever be >able to use Linux, it must come preinstalled on a computer >that you can >buy at Best Buy or Wal-Mart. I noticed that Mandrake 8.1 standard edition is available at WalMart. >There is a new distro called "Redmond Linux" (redmondlinux.org) that >does >just what Jeremy is saying. It limits the choices, dumbs down >the OS so >that a typical Windoze user can handle it. It will be >interesting to >watch this to see how it turns out. Is this really a good name to sell linux under? Considering the hatred and contempt that MS is held in, i think not. >I think that it's only been within the last year that linux distros >have >gotten to the point that they are usable by "power users" meaning >those >that know the difference between AOL and the Internet, or that >know what >the word "Operating System" means. Well, that would be me. I have really had fewer problems then I thought I would installing and trying to learn how to use linux. I still don't know enough commands yet, but I have my copy of Running Linux. BTW, I recieved my Win XP upgrade disc from Dell yesterday. I have decided NOT to install it though. Just too much bad crap about it. MUST......RESIST......MS........MIND CONTROL....... Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From mallahan at swbell.net Thu Dec 6 13:48:39 2001 From: mallahan at swbell.net (Charles Mallahan Jr.) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: HappyHacking LUG discount In-Reply-To: <01120601241802.15282@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3C0F7963.7DC3A3F8@swbell.net> I been meaning to get one of these. I am going to get a HHK Lite 2. If we all place our orders separately, will it count in the 5 for for the free one, which could be used as a prize for some LUG promo thing? crash3m wrote: > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > Subject: HappyHacking LUG discount > Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:46:28 -0800 > From: Tomomi Kozin > To: crash3m@yahoo.com > Cc: Paul Kitagawa , Wako Sakurai > > Hi, > In thanks for your continued support of the Linux revolution, we'd like to > offer LUG members worldwide $20 OFF ANY HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD Model! > (FOR EVERY 5 BOARDS YOUR LUG MEMBERS PURCHASE, WE WILL DONATE 1 HHK LITE!!!) > > HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD LITE $29.00 (PS/2 ONLY) > HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD LITE 2 $49.00 (USB or PS/2 model) > ORIGINAL HAPPY HACKING MULTI-PLATFORM MODEL $119.00 (PS/2, SUN, ADB cables > included!!!) > > See our website for more product info: www.pfuca.com > > Please place all orders by Tel. / Fax. or email to pai-info@pfuca.com and > write LUG Promo Sale in the subject. A confirmation email/invoice (sales tax > applicable) will be sent w/in 1 business day to confirm your order, and > payment type. We accept VISA/MC, money orders, or a personal check (which > must be rec'd before we ship out products). > > See why they call the Happy Hacking Keyboard, THE LINUX KEYBOARD! > > Best Rgrds, Tomomi > *************** > Tomomi Kozin > PFU America, Inc. mail: pai-info@pfuca.com > 3350 Scott Blvd. Bldg. 34-B Toll free: 1-888-681-8878 > Santa Clara, CA 95054 Tel: 408-327-1700 > URL: www.pfuca.com Fax: 408-327-1701 > ***************************************************** > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > -- Regards, Charles Mallahan mallahan@swbell.net "The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." So I installed LINUX" From jegilliland at hotmail.com Thu Dec 6 13:55:26 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: HappyHacking keyboard Message-ID: Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a happy hacking keyboard and how is it different from a standard keyboard? Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From zscoundrel at kc.rr.com Thu Dec 6 14:08:22 2001 From: zscoundrel at kc.rr.com (zscoundrel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <3C0E32AD.3080402@innovision.com> Message-ID: <3C0F7CB9.102@kc.rr.com> Actually, you are just repeating one of the more damaging M$ lines of FUD. I am using RH 7.1 just as it installed because I have more important things to do right now than recompile the kernel. I have done it before, but with 7.1 I did not need to! I m able to do EVERYTHING I want to do! I write letters, calculate spreadsheets, decomprepress after a tough day with a game or two, surf the web, exchange emails, modify pictures I take with my digital camera, and every now and then I process files using CAT/GREP/LESS/, I edit HTML files and then FTP them to my home page. In fact, the ONLY thing I can't do is print on this super cheap Xerox printer because the companby is to short sighted to provide a driver for Linux - but this is not a Linux problem, because I just have not had a chance to hook up the HP600 I usually use on this machine since I moved. Actually, it is not Linux's usability that insures it will NEVER replaces windoze, but it's stability! I can do almost anything my wife can do on her 'doze computer , plus a lot more, because software for her machine costs a bloody fortune, and most of mine is very dependable shareware. The more I think about it, the more I doubt that Linux ever could replace 'doze!!!! I don't think Linux could EVER become that sloppy and buggy and crash prone because I can always FIX THE BUGS and then RECOMPILE the SOURCE!!! (Well, unless Microsoft releases a distro!) The reason M$ continues to dominate is the lies coming from Redmond and the business relationship they foist onto their third party vendors via draconian contract clauses and the aggresive way they persue anyone in a market niche they decide they want to dominate. Marvin Bellamy wrote: > Straying OT... > > The usability of Linux is what's killing it's chances of being a > serious contender to Windows. There are a lot of installation > show-stoppers that aren't even documented. I had a hell of a time > with Redhat just getting AVIs to play, probably two weeks before I > found a reference to the gcc2.96 issue. How many people on this list > run Linux exclusively? You almost always have to go back to Windoze to > get some apps to run easily. M$ is an evil corporate entity, but they > got here by opening up the industry to non-techs. Until there is a > Linux distro that non-techs can easily use (I mean without relying on > a techie friend to troubleshoot), M$ will continue to dominate. I've > been screwing around with Linux for about a year now (spending quite a > bit of time per week tweaking my desktop), and I have just reached the > point that I have all the functionality that I need (less running > Win32 apps). KDE is still much slower than Windoze :( > > > Patrick Thurmond wrote: > >> I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But >> your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am >> pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a >> time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I >> follow the directions to the letter (most which require console >> commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have read >> alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a >> software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And >> I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, >> and slackware. >> >> My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, >> program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using >> the console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the >> commands, that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin >> down on XP, yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new >> hdd in under 1 minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really user >> friendly. I will always use linux for things like servers and net >> admin, no prob, but I am having a heck of a time using it as an >> everyday desktop. >> >> -Patrick >> >> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] >> >> > I will try to come in December to one of >> > the meetings and educate everyone on the >> > features of XP. >> >> I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, and a >> very good >> way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. >> >> We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. >> >> XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping >> >> . > > > > > > > > -- At 20, I was liberal, because I had nothing to lose and so much to gain. by 40, I was conservative, because I had so much to lose and so little to gain. Isn't it amazing what 20 years of hard work and experience will do for ones' point of view? From zscoundrel at kc.rr.com Thu Dec 6 14:12:03 2001 From: zscoundrel at kc.rr.com (zscoundrel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: HappyHacking LUG discount In-Reply-To: <3C0F7963.7DC3A3F8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3C0F7DB9.7080100@kc.rr.com> Why??? Why pay twice as much for a keyboard with less convenience and functionality? I am not tried to be a smart-a** here, I really would like to know what this keyboard offers over the 105-key gem I bought from Office Depot for $15? Charles Mallahan Jr. wrote: > I been meaning to get one of these. I am going to get a HHK Lite 2. If we all > place our orders separately, will it count in the 5 for for the free one, which > could be used as a prize for some LUG promo thing? > > crash3m wrote: > >> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >> Subject: HappyHacking LUG discount >> Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:46:28 -0800 >> From: Tomomi Kozin >> To: crash3m@yahoo.com >> Cc: Paul Kitagawa , Wako Sakurai >> >> Hi, >> In thanks for your continued support of the Linux revolution, we'd like to >> offer LUG members worldwide $20 OFF ANY HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD Model! >> (FOR EVERY 5 BOARDS YOUR LUG MEMBERS PURCHASE, WE WILL DONATE 1 HHK LITE!!!) >> >> HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD LITE $29.00 (PS/2 ONLY) >> HAPPY HACKING KEYBOARD LITE 2 $49.00 (USB or PS/2 model) >> ORIGINAL HAPPY HACKING MULTI-PLATFORM MODEL $119.00 (PS/2, SUN, ADB cables >> included!!!) >> >> See our website for more product info: www.pfuca.com >> >> Please place all orders by Tel. / Fax. or email to pai-info@pfuca.com and >> write LUG Promo Sale in the subject. A confirmation email/invoice (sales tax >> applicable) will be sent w/in 1 business day to confirm your order, and >> payment type. We accept VISA/MC, money orders, or a personal check (which >> must be rec'd before we ship out products). >> >> See why they call the Happy Hacking Keyboard, THE LINUX KEYBOARD! >> >> Best Rgrds, Tomomi >> *************** >> Tomomi Kozin >> PFU America, Inc. mail: pai-info@pfuca.com >> 3350 Scott Blvd. Bldg. 34-B Toll free: 1-888-681-8878 >> Santa Clara, CA 95054 Tel: 408-327-1700 >> URL: www.pfuca.com Fax: 408-327-1701 >> ***************************************************** >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> _________________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com >> > > > -- > Regards, > > Charles Mallahan > mallahan@swbell.net > > "The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." So I installed LINUX" > > > > > > -- At 20, I was liberal, because I had nothing to lose and so much to gain. by 40, I was conservative, because I had so much to lose and so little to gain. Isn't it amazing what 20 years of hard work and experience will do for ones' point of view? From dhageman at dracken.com Thu Dec 6 14:34:53 2001 From: dhageman at dracken.com (D. Hageman) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: apache In-Reply-To: <000a01c17e5c/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bashad84080/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bash201a8c0@muldersworld> Message-ID: http://www.apache.org/ Go to the documentation page. Look at the Server Directives page. Look for ones that start with User. On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Michael Pratt wrote: > what is the config option in the httpd.conf for allowing ~user to use the web? > -- //========================================================\ || D. Hageman || \========================================================// From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Thu Dec 6 14:38:16 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <3C0F7CB9.102@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <3C0F82CA.4040702@innovision.com> Trust me, I don't like M$. I'm forced to use their products at work. Actually, right now I'm not running *ANY* M$ products at home, but I am looking to reinstall Win98. I'm not spouting M$ sales hype, I'm talking about my experiences with both OS's. Why do we use Win2000 on our workstations?...because Linux it too difficult for non-techs who just want to powerup and download E-mail. The premise for Linux is great, and I think it will eventually usurp Bill Gate's market share, but asking your Grandma or even your mom to "./configure; make; make install" is too much. zscoundrel wrote: > Actually, you are just repeating one of the more damaging M$ lines of > FUD. I am using RH 7.1 just as it installed because I have more > important things to do right now than recompile the kernel. I have > done it before, but with 7.1 I did not need to! > > I m able to do EVERYTHING I want to do! I write letters, calculate > spreadsheets, decomprepress after a tough day with a game or two, surf > the web, exchange emails, modify pictures I take with my digital > camera, and every now and then I process files using CAT/GREP/LESS/, I > edit HTML files and then FTP them to my home page. > In fact, the ONLY thing I can't do is print on this super cheap Xerox > printer because the companby is to short sighted to provide a driver > for Linux - but this is not a Linux problem, because I just have not > had a chance to hook up the HP600 I usually use on this machine since > I moved. > Actually, it is not Linux's usability that insures it will NEVER > replaces windoze, but it's stability! I can do almost anything my > wife can do on her 'doze computer , plus a lot more, because software > for her machine costs a bloody fortune, and most of mine is very > dependable shareware. The more I think about it, the more I doubt > that Linux ever could replace 'doze!!!! I don't think Linux could > EVER become that sloppy and buggy and crash prone because I can always > FIX THE BUGS and then RECOMPILE the SOURCE!!! (Well, unless > Microsoft releases a distro!) > > The reason M$ continues to dominate is the lies coming from Redmond > and the business relationship they foist onto their third party > vendors via draconian contract clauses and the aggresive way they > persue anyone in a market niche they decide they want to dominate. > Marvin Bellamy wrote: > >> Straying OT... >> >> The usability of Linux is what's killing it's chances of being a >> serious contender to Windows. There are a lot of installation >> show-stoppers that aren't even documented. I had a hell of a time >> with Redhat just getting AVIs to play, probably two weeks before I >> found a reference to the gcc2.96 issue. How many people on this list >> run Linux exclusively? You almost always have to go back to Windoze >> to get some apps to run easily. M$ is an evil corporate entity, but >> they got here by opening up the industry to non-techs. Until there >> is a Linux distro that non-techs can easily use (I mean without >> relying on a techie friend to troubleshoot), M$ will continue to >> dominate. I've been screwing around with Linux for about a year now >> (spending quite a bit of time per week tweaking my desktop), and I >> have just reached the point that I have all the functionality that I >> need (less running Win32 apps). KDE is still much slower than >> Windoze :( >> >> >> Patrick Thurmond wrote: >> >>> I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But >>> your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am >>> pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a >>> time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I >>> follow the directions to the letter (most which require console >>> commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have >>> read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple >>> like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings >>> wrong. And I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, >>> mandrake, and slackware. >>> >>> My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, >>> program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using >>> the console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the >>> commands, that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin >>> down on XP, yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new >>> hdd in under 1 minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really >>> user friendly. I will always use linux for things like servers and >>> net admin, no prob, but I am having a heck of a time using it as an >>> everyday desktop. >>> >>> -Patrick >>> >>> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] >>> >>> > I will try to come in December to one of >>> > the meetings and educate everyone on the >>> > features of XP. >>> >>> I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, and a >>> very good >>> way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. >>> >>> We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. >>> >>> XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping >>> >>> . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > From hutchins at opus1.com Thu Dec 6 15:01:45 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C914D@CAVERN> I think it's unlikely that anyone will ever make money, or so much as break even, trying to beat Microsoft at it's own game. Trying to do a "dumbed down" prepackaged, preconfigured, smooth, simple, easy desktop "for dummies" is their strength. Why waste effort trying to imitate what they do best? I sincerely doubt that the Open Source development community has the discipline to refine, smooth, and polish software until it's as slick as the stuff from Redmond. Where our strengths lie are in power, intelligence, and flexibility - areas where Microsoft consistently looses. Let's play to our strengths, and not wallow in the mud with Bill. From tony at speedscript.com Thu Dec 6 15:21:36 2001 From: tony at speedscript.com (Tony Hammitt) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <3C0F82CA.4040702@innovision.com> Message-ID: <3C0F8D60.4367D3E2@speedscript.com> Yes, it's very important to prevent Grandma from learning anything about computers. After all, why would anyone over 60 ever want to learn anything new, or do things for themselves. Anyone else here who resents technological ageism? Anyone else whose Grandmother was a scholar? I think you get my point. Tony Marvin Bellamy wrote: > > Trust me, I don't like M$. I'm forced to use their products at work. > Actually, right now I'm not running *ANY* M$ products at home, but I am > looking to reinstall Win98. I'm not spouting M$ sales hype, I'm talking > about my experiences with both OS's. Why do we use Win2000 on our > workstations?...because Linux it too difficult for non-techs who just > want to powerup and download E-mail. The premise for Linux is great, > and I think it will eventually usurp Bill Gate's market share, but > asking your Grandma or even your mom to "./configure; make; make > install" is too much. > > zscoundrel wrote: > > > Actually, you are just repeating one of the more damaging M$ lines of > > FUD. I am using RH 7.1 just as it installed because I have more > > important things to do right now than recompile the kernel. I have > > done it before, but with 7.1 I did not need to! > > > > I m able to do EVERYTHING I want to do! I write letters, calculate > > spreadsheets, decomprepress after a tough day with a game or two, surf > > the web, exchange emails, modify pictures I take with my digital > > camera, and every now and then I process files using CAT/GREP/LESS/, I > > edit HTML files and then FTP them to my home page. > > In fact, the ONLY thing I can't do is print on this super cheap Xerox > > printer because the companby is to short sighted to provide a driver > > for Linux - but this is not a Linux problem, because I just have not > > had a chance to hook up the HP600 I usually use on this machine since > > I moved. > > Actually, it is not Linux's usability that insures it will NEVER > > replaces windoze, but it's stability! I can do almost anything my > > wife can do on her 'doze computer , plus a lot more, because software > > for her machine costs a bloody fortune, and most of mine is very > > dependable shareware. The more I think about it, the more I doubt > > that Linux ever could replace 'doze!!!! I don't think Linux could > > EVER become that sloppy and buggy and crash prone because I can always > > FIX THE BUGS and then RECOMPILE the SOURCE!!! (Well, unless > > Microsoft releases a distro!) > > > > The reason M$ continues to dominate is the lies coming from Redmond > > and the business relationship they foist onto their third party > > vendors via draconian contract clauses and the aggresive way they > > persue anyone in a market niche they decide they want to dominate. > > Marvin Bellamy wrote: > > > >> Straying OT... > >> > >> The usability of Linux is what's killing it's chances of being a > >> serious contender to Windows. There are a lot of installation > >> show-stoppers that aren't even documented. I had a hell of a time > >> with Redhat just getting AVIs to play, probably two weeks before I > >> found a reference to the gcc2.96 issue. How many people on this list > >> run Linux exclusively? You almost always have to go back to Windoze > >> to get some apps to run easily. M$ is an evil corporate entity, but > >> they got here by opening up the industry to non-techs. Until there > >> is a Linux distro that non-techs can easily use (I mean without > >> relying on a techie friend to troubleshoot), M$ will continue to > >> dominate. I've been screwing around with Linux for about a year now > >> (spending quite a bit of time per week tweaking my desktop), and I > >> have just reached the point that I have all the functionality that I > >> need (less running Win32 apps). KDE is still much slower than > >> Windoze :( > >> > >> > >> Patrick Thurmond wrote: > >> > >>> I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But > >>> your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am > >>> pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a > >>> time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I > >>> follow the directions to the letter (most which require console > >>> commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have > >>> read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple > >>> like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings > >>> wrong. And I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, > >>> mandrake, and slackware. > >>> > >>> My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, > >>> program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using > >>> the console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the > >>> commands, that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin > >>> down on XP, yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new > >>> hdd in under 1 minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really > >>> user friendly. I will always use linux for things like servers and > >>> net admin, no prob, but I am having a heck of a time using it as an > >>> everyday desktop. > >>> > >>> -Patrick > >>> > >>> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > >>> > >>> > I will try to come in December to one of > >>> > the meetings and educate everyone on the > >>> > features of XP. > >>> > >>> I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, and a > >>> very good > >>> way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. > >>> > >>> We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. > >>> > >>> XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Do You Yahoo!? > >>> Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping > >>> > >>> . > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Thu Dec 6 15:44:34 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C914D@CAVERN> Message-ID: <3C0F9254.40401@innovision.com> In-line comments... Jonathan Hutchins wrote: >I think it's unlikely that anyone will ever make money, or so much as break >even, trying to beat Microsoft at it's own game. Trying to do a "dumbed >down" prepackaged, preconfigured, smooth, simple, easy desktop "for dummies" >is their strength. Why waste effort trying to imitate what they do best? > Because they SUCK! M$ is a greedy, immoral organization and their "innovations" are driven by short-term profits, not improving their product. Linux doesn't have to turn into M$, just make itself more easily configurable/installable. I would love to be able to *confidently* approach my boss with Linux as an alternative OS. OT, I think I've got them convinced to use Linux/PostgreSQL instead of a much more expensive Win2000/SQLServer solution for our back-end. I've seen some amazing stuff out of the Linux community, I'm still in awe that you can download a free OS that is equivalent to M$/Mac's. If those guys thought it was a priority, I think they'd blow anything else away. > >I sincerely doubt that the Open Source development community has the >discipline to refine, smooth, and polish software until it's as slick as the >stuff from Redmond. > I'm going to tell Bill you said that :) > >Where our strengths lie are in power, intelligence, and flexibility - areas >where Microsoft consistently looses. > >Let's play to our strengths, and not wallow in the mud with Bill. > Then, Linux should surrender the mainstream desktop market to M$ since they can do it better? There's a lot of bitching about Win* products, never have I heard capitulation. I think I'm whining about this point because I perceive Linux to be so close to overtaking Windows... From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Thu Dec 6 15:50:10 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <3C0F8D60.4367D3E2@speedscript.com> Message-ID: <3C0F93A3.6090701@innovision.com> I'm not discriminating. I've tried to give tech support to both my mom and my grandma. They both have little interest/knowledge of anything more advanced than a VCR. Maybe your mom is LEET, mine isn't :) Tony Hammitt wrote: >Yes, it's very important to prevent Grandma from learning anything about >computers. After all, why would anyone over 60 ever want to learn anything >new, or do things for themselves. > >Anyone else here who resents technological ageism? Anyone else whose >Grandmother was a scholar? > >I think you get my point. > > Tony > > >Marvin Bellamy wrote: > >>Trust me, I don't like M$. I'm forced to use their products at work. >> Actually, right now I'm not running *ANY* M$ products at home, but I am >>looking to reinstall Win98. I'm not spouting M$ sales hype, I'm talking >>about my experiences with both OS's. Why do we use Win2000 on our >>workstations?...because Linux it too difficult for non-techs who just >>want to powerup and download E-mail. The premise for Linux is great, >>and I think it will eventually usurp Bill Gate's market share, but >>asking your Grandma or even your mom to "./configure; make; make >>install" is too much. >> >>zscoundrel wrote: >> >>>Actually, you are just repeating one of the more damaging M$ lines of >>>FUD. I am using RH 7.1 just as it installed because I have more >>>important things to do right now than recompile the kernel. I have >>>done it before, but with 7.1 I did not need to! >>> >>>I m able to do EVERYTHING I want to do! I write letters, calculate >>>spreadsheets, decomprepress after a tough day with a game or two, surf >>>the web, exchange emails, modify pictures I take with my digital >>>camera, and every now and then I process files using CAT/GREP/LESS/, I >>>edit HTML files and then FTP them to my home page. >>>In fact, the ONLY thing I can't do is print on this super cheap Xerox >>>printer because the companby is to short sighted to provide a driver >>>for Linux - but this is not a Linux problem, because I just have not >>>had a chance to hook up the HP600 I usually use on this machine since >>>I moved. >>>Actually, it is not Linux's usability that insures it will NEVER >>>replaces windoze, but it's stability! I can do almost anything my >>>wife can do on her 'doze computer , plus a lot more, because software >>>for her machine costs a bloody fortune, and most of mine is very >>>dependable shareware. The more I think about it, the more I doubt >>>that Linux ever could replace 'doze!!!! I don't think Linux could >>>EVER become that sloppy and buggy and crash prone because I can always >>>FIX THE BUGS and then RECOMPILE the SOURCE!!! (Well, unless >>>Microsoft releases a distro!) >>> >>>The reason M$ continues to dominate is the lies coming from Redmond >>>and the business relationship they foist onto their third party >>>vendors via draconian contract clauses and the aggresive way they >>>persue anyone in a market niche they decide they want to dominate. >>>Marvin Bellamy wrote: >>> >>>>Straying OT... >>>> >>>>The usability of Linux is what's killing it's chances of being a >>>>serious contender to Windows. There are a lot of installation >>>>show-stoppers that aren't even documented. I had a hell of a time >>>>with Redhat just getting AVIs to play, probably two weeks before I >>>>found a reference to the gcc2.96 issue. How many people on this list >>>>run Linux exclusively? You almost always have to go back to Windoze >>>>to get some apps to run easily. M$ is an evil corporate entity, but >>>>they got here by opening up the industry to non-techs. Until there >>>>is a Linux distro that non-techs can easily use (I mean without >>>>relying on a techie friend to troubleshoot), M$ will continue to >>>>dominate. I've been screwing around with Linux for about a year now >>>>(spending quite a bit of time per week tweaking my desktop), and I >>>>have just reached the point that I have all the functionality that I >>>>need (less running Win32 apps). KDE is still much slower than >>>>Windoze :( >>>> >>>> >>>>Patrick Thurmond wrote: >>>> >>>>>I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But >>>>>your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am >>>>>pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a >>>>>time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I >>>>>follow the directions to the letter (most which require console >>>>>commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have >>>>>read alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple >>>>>like a software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings >>>>>wrong. And I not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, >>>>>mandrake, and slackware. >>>>> >>>>>My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, >>>>>program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using >>>>>the console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the >>>>>commands, that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin >>>>>down on XP, yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new >>>>>hdd in under 1 minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really >>>>>user friendly. I will always use linux for things like servers and >>>>>net admin, no prob, but I am having a heck of a time using it as an >>>>>everyday desktop. >>>>> >>>>>-Patrick >>>>> >>>>> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] >>>>> >>>>> > I will try to come in December to one of >>>>> > the meetings and educate everyone on the >>>>> > features of XP. >>>>> >>>>> I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, and a >>>>> very good >>>>> way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. >>>>> >>>>> We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. >>>>> >>>>> XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>>>Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping >>>>> >>>>>. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Thu Dec 6 15:51:10 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <3C0F82CA.4040702@innovision.com> Message-ID: <20011206095103.B21938@katya> On Thu, Dec , at 08:38:02AM -0600, Marvin Bellamy wrote: > Trust me, I don't like M$. I'm forced to use their products at work. > Actually, right now I'm not running *ANY* M$ products at home, but I am > looking to reinstall Win98. I'm not spouting M$ sales hype, I'm talking > about my experiences with both OS's. Why do we use Win2000 on our > workstations?...because Linux it too difficult for non-techs who just > want to powerup and download E-mail. The premise for Linux is great, > and I think it will eventually usurp Bill Gate's market share, but > asking your Grandma or even your mom to "./configure; make; make > install" is too much. > > zscoundrel wrote: > Uhh, who is running ./configure;make;make install for thier email software? To those who answered yes, did you do it because you could or because you had to? Linux can make email easier than windows, because their are so many apps to choose from. If you want to make an argument pick something like CAD to argue, because their are far fewer OSS apps that try beat AutoCAD. The Office Suites do what most users desire, and are coming close (especially star office) to matching all the functionality of M$ products. I don't see where you think life is harder in linux. If you just like Win2K better then great, but don't expouse to me that Linux is too hard for joe user, because that is just cr@p that the M$ feeds the masses that don't know better. If every version of windows is supposed to be easier than the latter, then why is it every new version brings me more and more complicated questions from my friends and family? The easiest operating systems for the average user to use is the one he is currently using. Any change tends to create confusion. Most people now would say The modern windows layout is easier to use than the Win3.x layout, but when I did desktop support and moved people from 3.x to 95 I had to spend hours training people, and handling how do I questions. I had people cuss me out for putting that crap on thier computer. Today I know very few people who would run win3.x on thier computers. The argument that microsoft is easier only applies in one area, and that is the fact most computers you buy in the large retail stores have it installed out of the box. -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Thu Dec 6 15:53:59 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: XP Performance In-Reply-To: <3C0F8D60.4367D3E2@speedscript.com> Message-ID: <20011206095353.C21938@katya> On Thu, Dec , at 09:23:12AM -0600, Tony Hammitt wrote: > Yes, it's very important to prevent Grandma from learning anything about > computers. After all, why would anyone over 60 ever want to learn anything > new, or do things for themselves. > > Anyone else here who resents technological ageism? Anyone else whose > Grandmother was a scholar? > > I think you get my point. > > Tony > > I do. My father hadn't touched a computer until he was nearly 40, now he is responsible for training people in his company to use thier computer systems, and has acted as non-technical lead on some internal software development. All this and his title has the work marketing in it. -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From gerald at ethereal.com Thu Dec 6 16:10:50 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: Virus or Not? In-Reply-To: <3C0E8961.3E8B10E6@umkc.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, David Nicol wrote: > Gerald Combs wrote: > > > > The packet is a plain vanilla TCP SYN packet. I'd assume it's benign, but > > the only way to be sure would be to temporarily spin up a web server on > > the interal interface so that the HTTP connection can complete, and > > capture it. > > > A web server is overkill. A simple program to listen at the socket > and save whatever arrives to a file would do. Something like faucet > from the netpipes package, or write a simple server based on the > examples in perldoc perlipc. I was assuming that Apache was already installed on the server, and that something like /etc/init.d/httpd start tcpdump -w port 80 and host [ Wait for some period of time to pass ] /etc/init.d/httpd stop would do the trick. If not then yeah, netpipes or a simple perl/python script would probably be more appropriate. From hutchins at opus1.com Thu Dec 6 16:35:47 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: HappyHacking keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c17e74/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bashbaedd807960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Gilliland" > Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a happy hacking keyboard and how is > it different from a standard keyboard? It's a small format keyboard, no number pad and missing some of the extended keys of a standard keyboard. If you never use anyting but the basic 84 keys, ie for a pure text system, it's adequate and it's smaller format may be convenient. Of course, given that the standard 104 + key keyboards are about half the price, there's not much point if you aren't cramped for space. From hutchins at opus1.com Thu Dec 6 16:42:30 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: ease of use debate In-Reply-To: <3C0F9254.40401@innovision.com> Message-ID: <002701c17e747960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Bellamy" > Then, Linux should surrender the mainstream desktop market to > M$ since they can do it better? Essentially. We should let them go for the bottom of the market while "we" skim the cream off the top - serious servers, serious/advanced/power user desktops. I've worked for companies that were busy fighting their way to the bottom of the market. They won - they're out of business now. I've also worked for companies who didn't want to offer the cheapest product to the largest market, but who offered consistent quality at a higher but reasonable price. I still own stock on some of them. They're still around, and they'll be around when MS is a memory. > There's a lot of bitching about Win* products.. If you use MS products, you don't have to think or learn about computers, wich leaves you plenty of time to bitch about things you don't understand, like how they're written. Most of the noise comes from whiners who would be making just as much noise no matter what you gave them. From crash3m at yahoo.com Thu Dec 6 16:58:33 2001 From: crash3m at yahoo.com (crash3m) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: HappyHacking keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01120610555403.15282@localhost.localdomain> I thought there was a link in that email, sorry. http://www.pfuca.com/products/hhkb/hhkbindex.html On Thursday 06 December 2001 07:55 am, you wrote: > Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a happy hacking keyboard and how is > it different from a standard keyboard? > > Eric Gilliland > > J. Eric Gilliland > jegilliland@hotmail.com > Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. > Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From crash3m at yahoo.com Thu Dec 6 19:31:29 2001 From: crash3m at yahoo.com (crash3m) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: For all of you @Home users... In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A04@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <01120613252105.15282@localhost.localdomain> http://www.cmcsk.com/news/20011203-66197.cfm?ReleaseID=66197 I didn't hear anything on the list about it but someone brought this to my attention. They reached an agreement thankfully. Matt _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From siplewer at juno.com Thu Dec 6 20:23:14 2001 From: siplewer at juno.com (Jeffrey R Perry) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: Audiotapes? Message-ID: <20011206.142038.366.0.siplewer@juno.com> Hello, I'm a newbie and this is an off the wall question. Since I'm spending more time commuting these days, I was wondering if there are any books on tape on Information Technology out there that are worth anything. Jeff From dlegion at yahoo.com Thu Dec 6 21:52:11 2001 From: dlegion at yahoo.com (Aldis A Tuck) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: XP Performance Message-ID: <003401c17ea027e0380501a8c0@home> You can see how hard it has been for Linux to gain a spot on the desktop, I recive the Tiger Direct catalog and frequently order from it. I recieved a few issues that had Linux distros available as well as Linux keyboards and custom built systems , I guess it didnt go over to well since they no longer have that stuff to choose from. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Bellamy" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:43 AM Subject: Re: XP Performance > Straying OT... > > The usability of Linux is what's killing it's chances of being a serious > contender to Windows. There are a lot of installation show-stoppers > that aren't even documented. I had a hell of a time with Redhat just > getting AVIs to play, probably two weeks before I found a reference to > the gcc2.96 issue. How many people on this list run Linux exclusively? > You almost always have to go back to Windoze to get some apps to run > easily. M$ is an evil corporate entity, but they got here by opening up > the industry to non-techs. Until there is a Linux distro that non-techs > can easily use (I mean without relying on a techie friend to > troubleshoot), M$ will continue to dominate. I've been screwing around > with Linux for about a year now (spending quite a bit of time per week > tweaking my desktop), and I have just reached the point that I have all > the functionality that I need (less running Win32 apps). KDE is still > much slower than Windoze :( > > > Patrick Thurmond wrote: > > > I know your completely abhorrent to XP, and I don't blame you. But > > your biggest complaint I see so far is that it costs money. Now I am > > pretty experienced with computers in general and I have a hell of a > > time just installing things like netscape or staroffice in linux. I > > follow the directions to the letter (most which require console > > commands) and that doesn't do it. Nor do many variations. I have read > > alot of info on linux and when something that should be simple like a > > software install becames a huge pain, you know somethings wrong. And I > > not just talkin one distro, I am talkin redhat, debian, mandrake, and > > slackware. > > > > My arguments aren't mindless or experienceless ones but come on, > > program installation shouldn't be so difficult. I don't mind using the > > console, but I have to type in huge strings to execute the commands, > > that includes triggers and switches and such. Your talkin down on XP, > > yet I haven't seen it crash, it can format a brand new hdd in under 1 > > minute, and it boots very swiftly, and its really user friendly. I > > will always use linux for things like servers and net admin, no prob, > > but I am having a heck of a time using it as an everyday desktop. > > > > -Patrick > > > > Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick Thurmond [mailto:p_thurmond@yahoo.com] > > > > > I will try to come in December to one of > > > the meetings and educate everyone on the > > > features of XP. > > > > I think that would be a pretty poor way to spend LUG time, and a > > very good > > way to get yourself pelted with rotten vegetables. > > > > We all get plenty of exposure to Microsoft's "education" as it is. > > > > XP's primary benefit is that license fees go to Redmond. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping > > > > . > > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From dlegion at yahoo.com Thu Dec 6 22:08:45 2001 From: dlegion at yahoo.com (Aldis A Tuck) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: Linux is Life Message-ID: <006501c17ea2cd5c600501a8c0@home> Two Cents, Linux is not life, every piece of software, every piece of technology could go up in smoke tomorrow and the world would still go on. These things we create and hold so dear are just mear expressions of our creativity. Just because life is hard to you doesnt mean it is hard to the newborn baby with a silver spoon. Life is chalanging and will test your strengths, but if you insist that Linux is life , than Linux better get it's #!@$ straight because a lot of people are going to die. From derick at shark.zeni.net Thu Dec 6 22:53:19 2001 From: derick at shark.zeni.net (Don Erickson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: apache In-Reply-To: <000a01c17e5c/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bashad84080/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bash201a8c0@muldersworld> Message-ID: <200112062253.fB6MrMda019344@shark.zeni.net> In article <000a01c17e5c$0ad84080$0201a8c0@muldersworld> you write: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >what is the config option in the httpd.conf for allowing ~user to use the web? I think what you may be asking for is: UserDir public_html which will make /home/user/public_html the publicly served html directory when one requests http://domain.com/~user from the apache server. Regards, -Don -- .sig lite From mike at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 21:54:06 2001 From: mike at marauder.illiana.net (mike neuliep) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: test2 Message-ID: <200112132154.fBDLs6QZ021836@marauder.illiana.net> test again From mike at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 21:58:27 2001 From: mike at marauder.illiana.net (mike neuliep) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: final test Message-ID: <200112132158.fBDLwRKb022028@marauder.illiana.net> final test From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:05:01 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132205.fBDM51hM022179@marauder.illiana.net> >From maurice@discoverynet.com Sun Sep 12 13:22:53 1999 by marauder.illiana.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA00410 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:22:52 -0500 by mario.discoverynet.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05489 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:23:17 -0500 Message-ID: <37DBEF65.16F71BBF@discoverynet.com> From: "Maurice L. Entwistle" Organization: E-biz Media X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ed Allen Subject: Netscape Lock solved Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Dear KC LUGS:

I've had some wonderful help on my Netscape lock problem. I finally realized that there was a different kppp dial up for root and user -- not one for both. So, I got to checking the root one that worked and the one as user that didn't. I found that I had a transposed number in my ISP's address under the user dialup setup. Correcting this eliminated the problem! No more "lock" files. No more error messages. I'm home free! Just need to get my mail setup and working.

Thanks all for your help!

Maurice From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:05:20 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:47 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132205.fBDM5K13022210@marauder.illiana.net> >From samc@praxis.silence.org Sun Sep 12 14:12:51 1999 by marauder.illiana.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA00617 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:12:41 -0500 by masquerade.net.micro.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15779 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:10:33 -0500 by meneleus.silence.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10866 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:25:32 -0500 by praxis.silence.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA01137 for kclug@kclug.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:22:45 -0500 From: Sam Clippinger Message-Id: <199909131122.GAA01137@praxis.silence.org> Subject: Re: kclug - Re: Non-root user cannot use net (WAS: mouse support in To: kclug@kclug.org In-Reply-To: <37DA9282.942D306D@discoverynet.com> from "Maurice L. Entwistle" at Sep 11, 1999 12:33:54 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO When last we left our heroes, Maurice L. Entwistle had just said: > This is a ticky-tack complaint, but I don't suppose you could convince your emailer to send plain text? It'd make your messages much easier to read. >

I can connect with my ISP, discoverynet.com with kppp both as root and > as myself, maurice. However, I cannot open Netscape as maurice, only as > root. When I go to logout, a Netscape message says, maybe you have a $SOCKS_NS > lock. I can go in and delete the lock file, but it always re-appears. Is the Netscape message in a console window, or does it come up in a message box of its own? The difference is that Netscape may not have permission with the X server to open a window. If Netscape can't open a window at all, error message or otherwise, you might try disabling access control to your X server. To do this, you can open an xterm and type: xhost - It should say then that access control has been disabled. If Netscape can open an error window but won't otherwise start up, the only other thing I can think of is the SOCKS_HOST setting in the Netscape preferences window. You might try opening "~maurice/.netscape/preferences" in a text editor and making sure that the SOCKS_HOST line doesn't list a host. If it does and you really need one, make sure that it is setup correctly before leaving the setting in place. If neither of those are the case, then I'm afraid I have no other ideas, sorry. :) -sam Sam Clippinger For PGP public key (KEY ID: 431C5529), see samc@silence.org http://www.micro.com/~samc or http://pgp.ai.mit.edu =============randomly selected quote===no relevance to the above============= "For a million years the race has gone on monotonously propagating itself and monotonously reperforming this dull nonsense - to what end? No wisdom can guess! Who gets a profit out of it? Nobody but a parcel of usurping little monarchs and nobilities who dispise you; would feel defiled if you touched them; would shut the door in your face if you proposed to call; who you slave for, fight for, die for, and are not ashamed of it, but proud; whose existence is a perpetual insult to you and you are afraid to resent it; who are mendicants supported by your alms, yet assume toward you the airs of benefactor toward beggar; who address you in the language of master to slave, and are answered in the language of slave to master; who are worshiped by you with your mouth, while in your heart - if you have one - you dispise yourselves for it. The first man was a hypocrite and a coward, qualities which have not yet failed in his line; it is the foundation upon which all civilizations have been built. Drink to their perpetuation! Drink to their augmentation!" - Mark Twain, "The Mysterious Stranger" From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:05:38 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132205.fBDM5b6q022264@marauder.illiana.net> >From watts@jayhawks.net Wed Jun 7 03:03:28 2000 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23969 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 03:03:27 -0500 by violet.jayhawks.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06669 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2000 00:58:11 -0500 From: Jeffrey Watts To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: kclug - hmm...what the? In-Reply-To: <200006030940.EAA08381@sky.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Sat, 3 Jun 2000, Edgar Allen wrote: > Which will print either 'OK' or 'FAILED'. If that gets OK then you > need to 'cd /etc/rc.d/rc5.d;ln -s ../init.d/named S55named; cd > ../rc3.d;ln -s ../init.d/named S55named' so it will start > automatically during a reboot. The more elegant solution on Red Hat (and SGI IRIX) systems is to do 'chkconfig named on'. This will take care of the symlinks for you. J. o-----------------------------------o | Jeffrey Watts | | watts@jayhawks.net o-----------------------------------------o | Systems Programmer | "We should not be building surveillance | | Network Systems Management | technology into [Internet] standards. | | Sprint Communications | Law enforcement was not supposed to be | o----------------------------| easy. Where it is easy, it's called a | | police state." | | -- Jeff Schiller, IETF | o-----------------------------------------o From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:05:43 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132205.fBDM5hiU022281@marauder.illiana.net> >From bkelsay@askpioneer.com Thu Jan 25 09:41:55 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f0PFfpa09790 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:41:55 -0600 id ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:43:12 -0600 Message-ID: <15B0169B44F1D411BBD400D0B7B63D801FAE@genntmalexc01.readiloan.com> From: Brian Kelsay To: "'kclug@kclug.org'" Subject: RE: IPMASQ on the @home network...... MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Status: RO That option is not on a Windows 95 box that I'm looking at right now, not sure about 98 or the others at this point. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Densmore [mailto:DensmoreB@ctbsonline.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 8:43 AM > To: Brian Kelsay; 'kclug@kclug.org' > Subject: RE: IPMASQ on the @home network...... > > > Right click on network neighborhood, choose protocol tab, > select TCP/IP > protocol, click on properties button, select routing tab, > select Enable IP > forwarding checkbox. This needs to be on for Samba to work > and I believe > also for IP Masquerading, not sure if it is necessary > otherwise, I always > turn it. > > At least on NT. > > Brian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Kelsay [mailto:bkelsay@askpioneer.com] > > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 8:27 AM > > To: 'kclug@kclug.org' > > Subject: RE: IPMASQ on the @home network...... > > > > > > I don't think that is an option on a Windows box. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Brian Densmore [mailto:DensmoreB@ctbsonline.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 3:55 PM > > > To: 'rossiter@discoverynet.com' > > > Cc: 'kclug@kclug.org' > > > Subject: RE: IPMASQ on the @home network...... > > > > > > > > > Also, make sure the M$ Windows box has IP forwarding turned > > > on. Although it > > > looks like it may be. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:05:49 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132205.fBDM5mmA022311@marauder.illiana.net> >From erossiter1@home.com Thu Jan 25 22:02:03 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f0Q423a09900 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:02:03 -0600 (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010126040329.YUUY24109.mail.rdc1.il.home.com@cj765101b>; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:03:29 -0800 Message-ID: <001e01c0874c$c96900a0$d8811618@cj765101b> From: "Eric Rossiter" To: Cc: Subject: IPMASQ on the @HOME network in Independence (continued) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0871A.7DBCF990" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0871A.7DBCF990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When we last left our comic book heroes... Phedup was asking... Trying to set up IMASQ/IPCHAINS/IPWHATEVER on a RH 7.0 box connected to the Comcast @ home cable network. Have a Win95 box on the local net. Have a script called "gatekeeper" (see attached) fired at boot from /etc/rc.local. Linux box works fine (with a hack to /etc/ifup =)), email, web, ftp, etc. Win95 box no go Joe. BTW, the RH 7.0 box is dual boot w/Win2k. I found out this evening I can ping out from the Win95 box. Brian K was suggesting: > > On your Windows box, you need to enter the DNS server IP > > addresses for Comcast under the Network Properties. > >You need to put the IP of the Linux > > box in for the default gateway under the Windows Network Properties. > > Finally, the Windows box needs an IP on the private network > >(your home network (192.168.x.x or 10.0.0.x) that matches up with the > > Private IP you picked for your Linux box. Net adapter props. in Win2k listed the following: IP - 24.22.129.216 Mask - 255.255.255.128 GW - 24.22.129.129 DHCP Server - 24.2.4.70 Boot to Linux....grab a smoke, feed the dog, head for the bookcase, fall over the cat.....cuss....... Ok, so I whipped out O'Reily's LNAG and played and phiddled with nslookup and set type and gleaned the following: proxy1.indpdnce1.mo.home.com - 24.16.152.15 c1-se6-2.kscymo1.mo.home.net - 24.7.74.141 lh1.rcd1.ne.home.com - 24.2.4.70 (I gather my DHCP server is in Nebraska?!?) The RH 7.0 box is 10.0.0.1, the Win95 box is 10.0.0.2. Put 10.0.0.1 in for the default gateway under the Windows Network Properties. I entered all of the above in DNS under the Windows Network Properties (one at a time, trying the different pairs) in the Win95 box. Can ping out, but no web pages in browser, once again the dreaded "DNS error." I discovered I can not ftp to the same site I can ping. (this a site known to me, I have rights there and everything!!!) I am root, fear me..... "what do you want to rm today?"....but I digress...... Brian D. was suggesting: > > Also, make sure the M$ Windows box has IP forwarding turned > > on. Although it > > looks like it may be. I can't find that on a Win95 box bubba. But Brian D added: >> At least on NT. Reckon that's why I can't find it on the Win95 box. I'm droll I know, but it's getting on in the evening. =) Ok, so on with it Phed...... I discovered while all the gyrations on the Win95 box were proceeding, a tail of /var/log/messages showed what you see below: Jan 25 20:10:39 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 PROTO=17 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=96 S=0x00 I=156 F=0x0000 T=64 (#5) Jan 25 20:10:39 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 PROTO=17 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=96 S=0x00 I=158 F=0x0000 T=64 (#5) Jan 25 20:10:41 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 PROTO=17 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=96 S=0x00 I=161 F=0x0000 T=64 (#5) Jan 25 20:10:41 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 PROTO=17 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=96 S=0x00 I=163 F=0x0000 T=64 (#5) I did a watch on a tail of /var/log/messages and this went on and on, and the I=nnn paramet kept incrementing by one or two as you see here. Now, I dont have a clue what this means (yet) but some of you might. The 216 address is my machine.... I believe the .255 (broadcast?) address is a router somwhere??? Some one clue me heah? I'm beginning to believe my own script is chokeing me off maybe? The script was addapted by the Geeks at the Geekcave, and given to me, supposedly all I had to do was change the IP to match my RH 7.0 box (which I did.) I have read ipfwadm/IPCHAINS/IPTABLES in O'Reily's LNAG and it doesn't look too rough. I think I could hack out something that would serve my purpose. I don't understand half the stuff in that gatekeeper script....lol *blush* Anyone wanna splain it to me, I'll buy the beer. =) If some of you more knowledgable pholks would care to take a look at this script and make sure I'm not phubar'n myself, I'd be phorever in your debt. So there we have it as of this evening comic book heroes.....tune in tomorrow......same Bat Time....same Bat Channel........ TIA Eric R P.S. managed to configure pine in Linux...mail server is mail.indpdnce1.mo.home.com (just in case that gives someone a clue that it didn't me) night pholks..... ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0871A.7DBCF990 Content-Type: text/plain; name="gatekeeper.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="gatekeeper.txt" #!/bin/sh # TURN ON FORWARDING echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward #------------------------------------------------------------------- echo "gatekeeper - linux kernel packet router/filter ruleset by Consultant Field Engineering (www.cfecorp.net) - adapted from the Geekcave rulset - original IPCHINS-FIREWALL V1.6.2m ruleset by Ian Hall-Beyer " # # IPCHAINS-FIREWALL V1.6.2m # # ----------------------------------------- Ipchains Firewall and MASQ = Script - # # Original script by Ian Hall-Beyer (manuka@nerdherd.net) # # Contributors: # terminus (cpm@dotquad.com) (ICQ & DHCP, @home testing) # ---------------------------------------------------------------- = Interfaces - # Local Interface # This is the interface that is your link to the world LOCALIF=3D"eth0" # Internal Interface # This is the interface for your local network # NOTE: INTERNALNET is a *network* address. All host bits should be 0 INTERNALNET=3D"10.0.0.0/25" INTERNALIF=3D"eth1" # ------------------------------------------------------- Variable = definition - # # Set the location of ipchains. IPCHAINS=3D"/sbin/ipchains" # You shouldn't need to change anything in the rest of this section LOCALIP=3D`ifconfig $LOCALIF | grep inet | cut -d : -f 2 | cut -d -f = 1` LOCALMASK=3D`ifconfig $LOCALIF | grep Mask | cut -d : -f 4` LOCALNET=3D"$LOCALIP/$LOCALMASK" echo "Internal ($INTERNALIF): $INTERNALNET" echo "External ($LOCALIF): $LOCALNET" echo "-------------------------------------" REMOTENET=3D"0/0" # -------------------------------------- Flush everything, start from = scratch - echo -n "Flushing rulesets.." # Incoming packets from the outside network $IPCHAINS -F input echo -n "." # Outgoing packets from the internal network $IPCHAINS -F output =20 echo -n "." # Forwarding/masquerading $IPCHAINS -F forward echo -n "." echo "Done!" # ---------------------------------- Allow all connections within the = network - echo -n "Internal.." $IPCHAINS -A input -s $INTERNALNET -d $INTERNALNET -j ACCEPT $IPCHAINS -A output -s $INTERNALNET -d $INTERNALNET -j ACCEPT echo -n ".." echo "Done!" # -------------------------------------------------- Allow loopback = interface - echo -n "Loopback.." $IPCHAINS -A input -i lo -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -j ACCEPT $IPCHAINS -A output -i lo -s 0/0 -d 0/0 -j ACCEPT echo -n ".." echo "Done!" # -------------------------------------------------------------- = Masquerading - echo -n "Masquerading.." # don't masquerade internal-internal traffic $IPCHAINS -A forward -s $INTERNALNET -d $INTERNALNET -j ACCEPT echo -n "." # don't Masquerade external interface direct $IPCHAINS -A forward -s $LOCALNET -d $REMOTENET -j ACCEPT=20 echo -n "." # masquerade all internal IP's going outside $IPCHAINS -A forward -s $INTERNALNET -d $REMOTENET -j MASQ echo -n "." # set Default rule on MASQ chain to Deny $IPCHAINS -P forward REJECT echo -n "." # --------------------- Allow all connections from the network to the = outside - $IPCHAINS -A input -s $INTERNALNET -d $REMOTENET -j ACCEPT =20 $IPCHAINS -A output -s $INTERNALNET -d $REMOTENET -j ACCEPT echo -n ".." echo "Done!" # ----------------------------------Set telnet, www and FTP for minimum = delay - # This section manipulates the Type Of Service (TOS) bits of the=20 # packet. For this to work, you must have CONFIG_IP_ROUTE_TOS enabled # in your kernel echo -n "TOS flags.." $IPCHAINS -A output -p tcp -d 0/0 telnet -t 0x01 0x10 -j ACCEPT =20 $IPCHAINS -A output -p tcp -d 0/0 www -t 0x01 0x10 -j ACCEPT $IPCHAINS -A output -p tcp -d 0/0 ftp -t 0x01 0x10 -j ACCEPT echo -n "..." # Set ftp-data for maximum throughput $IPCHAINS -A output -p tcp -d 0/0 ftp-data -t 0x01 0x08 -j ACCEPT echo -n "." echo "Done!" # ---------------------------------------------------------- Trusted = Networks - # Add in any rules to specifically allow connections from hosts/nets = that # would otherwise be blocked. # echo -n "Trusted Networks.." # $IPCHAINS -A input -s [trusted host/net] -d $LOCALNET -j = ACCEPT=20 # echo -n "." # echo "Done!" # ----------------------------------------------------------- Banned = Networks - # Add in any rules to specifically block connections from hosts/nets = that # have been known to cause you problems. These packets are logged. #echo -n "Banned Networks.." # This one is generic # $IPCHAINS -A input -l -s [banned host/net] -d $LOCALNET -j = REJECT # echo -n "." # This one blocks ICMP attacks # $IPCHAINS -A input -l -i $LOCALIF -p icmp -s 0/0 -d $LOCALNET -j = REJECT # echo -n "." #echo "Done!" # ---------------------------- Specific port blocks on the external = interface - # This section blocks off ports/services to the outside that have # vulnerabilities. This will not affect the ability to use these = services # within your network.=20 echo -n "Port Blocks.." # NetBEUI/Samba $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -l -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 137:139 -j = REJECT $IPCHAINS -A input -p udp -l -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 137:139 -j = REJECT echo -n "." # Microsoft SQL $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 1433 -j REJECT $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 1433 -j REJECT echo -n "." # Postgres SQL $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 5432 -j REJECT $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 5432 -j REJECT echo -n "." # Network File System $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 2049 -j REJECT $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 2049 -j REJECT echo -n "." # X Displays :0-:2- $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 5999:6003 -j = REJECT $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 5999:6003 -j = REJECT echo -n "." # X Font Server :0-:2- $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 7100 -j REJECT $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 7100 -j REJECT echo -n "." # Back Orifice (logged) $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 31337 -j REJECT $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 31337 -j REJECT echo -n "." # NetBus (logged) $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 12345:12346 -j = REJECT $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 12345:12346 -j = REJECT echo -n "." echo "Done!" # --------------------------------------------------- High Unprivileged = ports - # These are opened up to allow sockets created by connections allowed by = # ipchains echo -n "High Ports.." $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 1023:65535 -j = ACCEPT $IPCHAINS -A input -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 1023:65535 -j = ACCEPT echo -n "." echo "Done!" # ------------------------------------------------------------ Basic = Services - echo -n "Services.." # ftp-data (20) and ftp (21) $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 20 -j ACCEPT $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 21 -j ACCEPT echo -n ".." # ssh (22) $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 22 -j ACCEPT echo -n "." # telnet (23) $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 23 -j ACCEPT echo -n "." # smtp (25) $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 25 -j ACCEPT echo -n "." # DNS (53) #$IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 53 -j ACCEPT #$IPCHAINS -A input -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 53 -j ACCEPT #echo -n ".." # DHCP on LAN side (to make @Home DHCP work) (67/68) # $IPCHAINS -A input -i $INTERNALIF -p udp -s $INTERNALNET -d = 255.255.255.255/24 67 -j ACCEPT # $IPCHAINS -A output -i $INTERNALIF -p udp -s $INTERNALNET -d = 255.255.255.255/24 68 -j ACCEPT # echo -n ".." # http (80) $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 80 -j ACCEPT echo -n "." # POP-3 (110) # $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 110 -j ACCEPT # echo -n "." # identd (113) # $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 113 -j ACCEPT # echo -n "." # nntp (119) # $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 119 -j ACCEPT # echo -n "." # netBluie (137) # $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 137 -j ACCEPT # $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p udp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 137 -j ACCEPT # echo -n "." # https (443) # $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 443 -j ACCEPT # echo -n "." # ICQ Services (it's a server service) (4000) # $IPCHAINS -A input -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 4000 -j ACCEPT # echo -n "." # Log connections to port 25000 # $IPCHAINS -A input -l -p tcp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET 25000 -j = REJECT echo "Done!" # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- = ICMP - echo -n "ICMP Rules.." # Use this to deny ICMP attacks from specific addresses # $IPCHAINS -A input -b -i $EXTERNALIF -p icmp -s

-d 0/0 -j = REJECT # echo -n "." # Allow incoming ICMP $IPCHAINS -A input -p icmp -s $REMOTENET -d $LOCALNET -j ACCEPT echo -n ".." # Allow outgoing ICMP $IPCHAINS -A output -p icmp -s $LOCALNET -d $REMOTENET -j ACCEPT $IPCHAINS -A output -p icmp -s $INTERNALNET -d $REMOTENET -j ACCEPT echo -n "...." echo "Done!" # -------------------------------------------------------- set default = policy - $IPCHAINS -A input -l -j REJECT $IPCHAINS -A output -j ACCEPT echo=20 echo "Finished Establishing Firewall. Made to Order by the Geekcave" echo "http://www.geekcave.net" ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0871A.7DBCF990-- From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:05:56 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132205.fBDM5uef022346@marauder.illiana.net> >From mike Sat Jan 27 07:30:11 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f0RDUBT08595 for kclug@kclug.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 07:30:11 -0600 From: mike neuliep Message-Id: <200101271330.f0RDUBT08595@marauder.illiana.net> To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: RedHat or Sair Status: RO Has anyone out there taken either the Sair or RedHat Certification tests? Mike Neuliep mike@illiana.net From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:06:01 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132206.fBDM61Cd022369@marauder.illiana.net> >From rossiter@discoverynet.com Fri Jan 26 12:53:12 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f0QIr6a02610 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:53:07 -0600 by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00198 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:48:48 -0700 (MST) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAABHaWna; Fri Jan 26 11:48:37 2001 Message-ID: <001a01c087c9$b4f36480$5d0aa8c0@magness> Reply-To: "Eric Rossiter" From: "Eric Rossiter" To: References: <001e01c0874c$c96900a0$d8811618@cj765101b> Subject: Re: IPMASQ on the @HOME network in Independence (continued) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C08797.69A7F400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C08797.69A7F400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, so no one can help any further???? *shrugs* Thanks, Eric ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eric Rossiter To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 10:02 PM Subject: IPMASQ on the @HOME network in Independence (continued) > When we last left our comic book heroes... Phedup was asking... >=20 > Trying to set up IMASQ/IPCHAINS/IPWHATEVER on a RH 7.0 box connected = to the > Comcast @ home cable network. Have a Win95 box on the local net. Have = a > script called "gatekeeper" (see attached) fired at boot from = /etc/rc.local. > Linux box works fine (with a hack to /etc/ifup =3D)), email, web, ftp, = etc. > Win95 box no go Joe. BTW, the RH 7.0 box is dual boot w/Win2k. >=20 > I found out this evening I can ping out from the Win95 box. >=20 > Brian K was suggesting: > > > On your Windows box, you need to enter the DNS server IP > > > addresses for Comcast under the Network Properties. > > >You need to put the IP of the Linux > > > box in for the default gateway under the Windows Network = Properties. > > > Finally, the Windows box needs an IP on the private network > > >(your home network (192.168.x.x or 10.0.0.x) that matches up with = the > > > Private IP you picked for your Linux box. >=20 >=20 > Net adapter props. in Win2k listed the following: > IP - 24.22.129.216 > Mask - 255.255.255.128 > GW - 24.22.129.129 > DHCP Server - 24.2.4.70 >=20 > Boot to Linux....grab a smoke, feed the dog, head for the bookcase, = fall > over the cat.....cuss....... >=20 > Ok, so I whipped out O'Reily's LNAG and played and phiddled with = nslookup > and set type and gleaned the following: >=20 > proxy1.indpdnce1.mo.home.com - 24.16.152.15 > c1-se6-2.kscymo1.mo.home.net - 24.7.74.141 > lh1.rcd1.ne.home.com - 24.2.4.70 (I gather my DHCP server is in = Nebraska?!?) >=20 > The RH 7.0 box is 10.0.0.1, the Win95 box is 10.0.0.2. Put 10.0.0.1 = in for > the default gateway under the Windows Network Properties. >=20 > I entered all of the above in DNS under the Windows Network Properties = (one > at a time, trying the different pairs) in the Win95 box. Can ping = out, but > no web pages in browser, once again the dreaded "DNS error." I = discovered I > can not ftp to the same site I can ping. (this a site known to me, I = have > rights there and everything!!!) I am root, fear me..... "what do you = want to > rm today?"....but I digress...... >=20 > Brian D. was suggesting: > > > Also, make sure the M$ Windows box has IP forwarding turned > > > on. Although it > > > looks like it may be. >=20 > I can't find that on a Win95 box bubba. >=20 > But Brian D added: >=20 > >> At least on NT. >=20 > Reckon that's why I can't find it on the Win95 box. I'm droll I know, = but > it's getting on in the evening. =3D) >=20 > Ok, so on with it Phed...... I discovered while all the gyrations on = the > Win95 box were proceeding, a tail of /var/log/messages showed what you = see > below: >=20 > Jan 25 20:10:39 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 = PROTO=3D17 > 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=3D96 S=3D0x00 I=3D156 F=3D0x0000 = T=3D64 (#5) > Jan 25 20:10:39 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 = PROTO=3D17 > 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=3D96 S=3D0x00 I=3D158 F=3D0x0000 = T=3D64 (#5) > Jan 25 20:10:41 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 = PROTO=3D17 > 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=3D96 S=3D0x00 I=3D161 F=3D0x0000 = T=3D64 (#5) > Jan 25 20:10:41 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 = PROTO=3D17 > 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=3D96 S=3D0x00 I=3D163 F=3D0x0000 = T=3D64 (#5) >=20 > I did a watch on a tail of /var/log/messages and this went on and on, = and > the I=3Dnnn paramet kept incrementing by one or two as you see here. = Now, I > dont have a clue what this means (yet) but some of you might. The 216 > address is my machine.... I believe the .255 (broadcast?) address is a > router somwhere??? Some one clue me heah? >=20 > I'm beginning to believe my own script is chokeing me off maybe? The = script > was addapted by the Geeks at the Geekcave, and given to me, supposedly = all I > had to do was change the IP to match my RH 7.0 box (which I did.) I = have > read ipfwadm/IPCHAINS/IPTABLES in O'Reily's LNAG and it doesn't look = too > rough. I think I could hack out something that would serve my = purpose. I > don't understand half the stuff in that gatekeeper script....lol = *blush* > Anyone wanna splain it to me, I'll buy the beer. =3D) If some of you = more > knowledgable pholks would care to take a look at this script and make = sure > I'm not phubar'n myself, I'd be phorever in your debt. >=20 > So there we have it as of this evening comic book heroes.....tune in > tomorrow......same Bat Time....same Bat Channel........ >=20 > TIA >=20 > Eric R >=20 > P.S. managed to configure pine in Linux...mail server is > mail.indpdnce1.mo.home.com (just in case that gives someone a clue = that it > didn't me) night pholks..... >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C08797.69A7F400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, so no one can help any = further????
*shrugs*
 
Thanks,
Eric
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Rossiter <erossiter1@home.com>
Cc: <rossiter@discoverynet.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 10:02 = PM
Subject: IPMASQ on the @HOME network in Independence = (continued)

> When we last = left our comic=20 book heroes... Phedup was asking...
>
> Trying to set up=20 IMASQ/IPCHAINS/IPWHATEVER on a RH 7.0 box connected to the
> = Comcast @=20 home cable network.  Have a Win95 box on the local net. Have = a
>=20 script called "gatekeeper" (see attached) fired at boot from=20 /etc/rc.local.
> Linux box works fine (with a hack to /etc/ifup = =3D)),=20 email, web, ftp, etc.
> Win95 box no go Joe. BTW, the RH 7.0 box = is dual=20 boot w/Win2k.
>
> I found out this evening I can ping out = from the=20 Win95 box.
>
> Brian K was suggesting:
> > > On = your=20 Windows box, you need to enter the DNS server IP
> > > = addresses for=20 Comcast under the Network Properties.
> > >You need to put = the IP of=20 the Linux
> > > box in for the default gateway under the = Windows=20 Network Properties.
> > > Finally, the Windows box needs an = IP on=20 the private network
> > >(your home network (192.168.x.x or=20 10.0.0.x) that matches up with the
> > > Private IP you = picked for=20 your Linux box.
>
>
> Net adapter props. in Win2k = listed the=20 following:
> IP - 24.22.129.216
> Mask - = 255.255.255.128
> GW=20 - 24.22.129.129
> DHCP Server - 24.2.4.70
>
> Boot to = Linux....grab a smoke, feed the dog, head for the bookcase, fall
> = over=20 the cat.....cuss.......
>
> Ok, so I whipped out O'Reily's = LNAG and=20 played and phiddled with nslookup
> and set type and gleaned the=20 following:
>
> proxy1.indpdnce1.mo.home.com - = 24.16.152.15
>=20 c1-se6-2.kscymo1.mo.home.net - 24.7.74.141
> lh1.rcd1.ne.home.com = -=20 24.2.4.70 (I gather my DHCP server is in Nebraska?!?)
>
> = The RH=20 7.0 box is 10.0.0.1, the Win95 box is 10.0.0.2.  Put 10.0.0.1 in=20 for
> the default gateway under the Windows Network = Properties.
>=20
> I entered all of the above in DNS under the Windows Network = Properties=20 (one
> at a time, trying the different pairs) in the Win95 = box.  Can=20 ping out, but
> no web pages in browser, once again the dreaded = "DNS=20 error." I discovered I
> can not ftp to the same site I can ping. = (this a=20 site known to me, I have
> rights there and everything!!!) I am = root, fear=20 me..... "what do you want to
> rm today?"....but I = digress......
>=20
> Brian D. was suggesting:
> > > Also, make sure the = M$=20 Windows box has IP forwarding turned
> > > on. Although = it
>=20 > > looks like it may be.
>
> I can't find that on a = Win95=20 box bubba.
>
> But Brian D added:
>
> >> = At=20 least on NT.
>
> Reckon that's why I can't find it on the = Win95=20 box.  I'm droll I know, but
> it's getting on in the = evening. =20 =3D)
>
> Ok, so on with it Phed......  I discovered = while all=20 the gyrations on the
> Win95 box were proceeding, a tail of=20 /var/log/messages showed what you see
> below:
>
> = Jan 25=20 20:10:39 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0 = PROTO=3D17
>=20 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=3D96 S=3D0x00 I=3D156 F=3D0x0000 = T=3D64 (#5)
>=20 Jan 25 20:10:39 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input REJECT eth0=20 PROTO=3D17
> 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=3D96 S=3D0x00 = I=3D158 F=3D0x0000=20 T=3D64 (#5)
> Jan 25 20:10:41 cj765101-b kernel: Packet log: input = REJECT=20 eth0 PROTO=3D17
> 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 L=3D96 = S=3D0x00 I=3D161=20 F=3D0x0000 T=3D64 (#5)
> Jan 25 20:10:41 cj765101-b kernel: Packet = log: input=20 REJECT eth0 PROTO=3D17
> 24.22.129.216:137 24.22.129.255:137 = L=3D96 S=3D0x00=20 I=3D163 F=3D0x0000 T=3D64 (#5)
>
> I did a watch on a tail = of=20 /var/log/messages and this went on and on, and
> the I=3Dnnn = paramet kept=20 incrementing by one or two as you see here.  Now, I
> dont = have a=20 clue what this means (yet) but some of you might. The 216
> = address is my=20 machine.... I believe the .255 (broadcast?) address is a
> router=20 somwhere???  Some one clue me heah?
>
> I'm beginning = to=20 believe my own script is chokeing me off maybe? The script
> was = addapted=20 by the Geeks at the Geekcave, and given to me, supposedly all I
> = had to=20 do was change the IP to match my RH 7.0 box (which I did.)  I = have
>=20 read ipfwadm/IPCHAINS/IPTABLES in O'Reily's LNAG and it doesn't look = too
>=20 rough.  I think I could hack out something that would serve my = purpose.=20 I
> don't understand half the stuff in that gatekeeper = script....lol =20 *blush*
> Anyone wanna splain it to me, I'll buy the beer.  = =3D) If=20 some of you more
> knowledgable pholks would care to take a look = at this=20 script and make sure
> I'm not phubar'n myself, I'd be phorever in = your=20 debt.
>
> So there we have it as of this evening comic book = heroes.....tune in
> tomorrow......same Bat Time....same Bat=20 Channel........
>
> TIA
>
> Eric R
> =
>=20 P.S.  managed to configure pine in Linux...mail server is
>=20 mail.indpdnce1.mo.home.com (just in case that gives someone a clue that=20 it
> didn't me)  night pholks.....
> = ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C08797.69A7F400-- From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:06:11 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132206.fBDM6Bfn022406@marauder.illiana.net> >From zscoundrel@kc.rr.com Sun Dec 9 18:52:57 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fBA0qt8j015010 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:52:56 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:51:54 -0600 Message-ID: <3C140825.7090506@kc.rr.com> From: zscoundrel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686; en-US; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Hutchins CC: Marvin Bellamy , kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: ease of use debate References: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C914D@CAVERN> <3C0F9254.40401@innovision.com> <002701c17e74$ea8ed5a0$17960c0a@uhc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO The problem is that most people are not smart enough to understand most computer problems. To them, the software and hardware are one. They don't blame Micro$loth for the Blue-Screen-of-Death or the lock-ups or the various bugs. The whole process is FM to them. They usually can't tell the difference between a bug, a crash, user error, or a lock-up. When there is a problem, they blame the COMPUTER, do some 3-finger incantation to cause another magical re-boot, and trudge merrily along with what-ever they were trying to do. What we SHOULD be doing is establishing a set of PUBLISHED inter-operability standards that software should adhear to. One that all manufacturers can depend on without lining the pockets of a major competitor and without fear of losing license access should they inadvertantly do something to displease the license holder. This is my main hope for the GPL and Linux. It would be great if the courts would hold Micro$loth to certain inter-operatbility standards and force them to open the source to the operating system. Let 'em keep Office and the applications to themselves. Once the techies get a look at the source - the laughing will not stop for a long time. (These comments will probably earn me a visit from the software police, but I am prepared. I beleive in freedom of speech - even in these times - and the price of these freedoms is vigilance. I have licenses for every piece of software I own and am prepared to cost any organization a fortune in legal bills should they attack me!!!) Letting 'them' go for the bottom of the market is fine, but they are never content with what they have. When they see that some programmer has developed a market niche that they have ignored for years, they try to buy that programmer out. If they are unsuccessful, they drive that poor programmer out of business by a concerted effort of thousands of programmers, marketing people, and FUD. We need to conter their FUD the same way Ellison and Jobs do - never let an opportunity pass by to correct M$ FUD or to take a light-hearted jab at them. This sets people to thinking, and THAT is last thing Micro$loth wants to have happening! Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marvin Bellamy" > >> Then, Linux should surrender the mainstream desktop market to >> M$ since they can do it better? > > > Essentially. We should let them go for the bottom of the market while "we" > skim the cream off the top - serious servers, serious/advanced/power user > desktops. > > I've worked for companies that were busy fighting their way to the bottom of > the market. They won - they're out of business now. I've also worked for > companies who didn't want to offer the cheapest product to the largest > market, but who offered consistent quality at a higher but reasonable price. > I still own stock on some of them. They're still around, and they'll be > around when MS is a memory. > >> There's a lot of bitching about Win* products.. > > > If you use MS products, you don't have to think or learn about computers, > wich leaves you plenty of time to bitch about things you don't understand, > like how they're written. Most of the noise comes from whiners who would be > making just as much noise no matter what you gave them. > > > > > > -- At 20, I was liberal, because I had nothing to lose and so much to gain. by 40, I was conservative, because I had so much to lose and so little to gain. Isn't it amazing what 20 years of hard work and experience will do for ones' point of view? From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:06:17 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132206.fBDM6HZR022429@marauder.illiana.net> >From gedascher@multiservice.com Mon Dec 10 07:04:04 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fBAD448j019901 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:04:04 -0600 (Vircom SMTPRS 4.7.192) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:03:42 -0600 From: "Gene Dascher" To: "Kclug" Subject: Good Article Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Status: RO This is a good article about Linux advocacy and some problems with knowing "Too Much" about Linux. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23245.html Gene From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:06:48 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132206.fBDM6ltX022470@marauder.illiana.net> >From hutchins@opus1.com Mon Dec 10 08:40:07 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fBAEe78j020464 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:40:07 -0600 id ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:36:06 -0600 Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9166@CAVERN> From: Jonathan Hutchins To: "'zscoundrel'" , Jonathan Hutchins Cc: Marvin Bellamy , kclug@kclug.org Subject: RE: ease of use debate MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Status: RO > -----Original Message----- > From: zscoundrel [mailto:zscoundrel@kc.rr.com] > The problem is that most people are not smart enough to > understand most computer problems. To them, the software > and hardware are one. They don't blame Micro$loth for > the Blue-Screen-of-Death or the lock-ups or the various bugs. Now there they might not be so far off. It's pretty well documented that most BSOD problems are the result of bad hardware and/or bad drivers. From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:06:53 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132206.fBDM6qGR022487@marauder.illiana.net> >From gedascher@multiservice.com Mon Dec 10 09:24:30 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fBAFOU8j020911 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:24:30 -0600 (Vircom SMTPRS 4.7.192) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:24:19 -0600 From: "Gene Dascher" To: "Kclug" Subject: M$ settlement article Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Status: RO Article about M$ settlement. At the end is contact information for the DOJ. Use it and let them know how you feel about the proposed settlement. http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20011206.html From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:06:58 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132206.fBDM6wLI022513@marauder.illiana.net> >From jrunyan@nitc.usda.gov Mon Dec 10 10:10:33 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fBAGAX8j021428 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:10:33 -0600 id 189929532; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:10:26 -0600 (CST) From: JD Runyan To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: XP Performance Message-ID: <20011210101026.A23909@katya> Mail-Followup-To: JD Runyan , kclug@kclug.org References: <20011206095103.B21938@katya> <20011210001803.90072.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20011210001803.90072.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.21i Status: RO I believe this belongs on the list. In reality, the non-techie sees little difference between the two. The ask the person that they know, who knows the most about computers to help them when they need. KDE, and GNome are not harder, thier just different, and can be learned and tweaked by anyone. Just screaming that it is easier doesn't cut it in an argument. When I put a disk into my drive in KDE, and it is a disk that contains software for Linux it usually opens up the software manager, and gives me a list of Installable software. I have managed windows and UNIX servers for over 6 years, and have jacked with windows pc's in one way or another for the last 15 or more years, and I am an MCSE. I know exactly of what I speak. I converted 100 desktops running Windows 3.11 to Windows 95, and spent the next 6 months dealing with problems, that weren't problems at all. They were just the user didn't understand, and they didn't understand because the UI was different. You say it is much more intuitive, and I don't. Your argument makes little sense. We think it is intuitive to drive a car with a steering wheel, rather than a flight stick, but a pilot might find the stick just as easy. The steering wheel really was chosen for engineering pruposes. It is easier to engineer the wheel rotation using a rotating object. On Sun, Dec , at 04:18:03PM -0800, Patrick Thurmond wrote: > Now your just plain wrong. As a techie I know for a fact that linux > isn't easier. If you use linux for a couple of years and are using for > several days out of the week during this time then you will know your > way around it like I know my way around windows. When I moved from 3.1 > to 95 I found 95 to be less hassle and since everything was right there > it was also easier. X Windows uses a start menu config like windows so > you can't argue easier use for linux their. >You talk about the lies MS > spreads but the linux community doesn't always tell the truth about > windows either. I speak not of lies, but of cr@p. MS sells it self as the end all be all. They tell you to upgrade, upgrade, upgrade with no real purpose, but they sell it to you. Windows 95 to Windows 98se was a bunch of bugfixes, and some gloss, yet they sold it as another OS. If I had bought that software under the name AIX, I would have received those updates at no additional charge, and would not be asked to pay for another OS unless I needed it to run the latest application. Rather than creating a technically more sound product, and selling the techies, and making it pretty to sell the managers, they only do the latter. Rather than compete in the marketplace they march to capital hill, and call the open source community un-American, and a threat to the American way of life. That is the cr@p I speak of. >Now I have been using MS for 7 years and linux for 3 > years and I can tell you that you know not of which you speak if your > saying that spending hours reading a text file to work a linux program Again I ask who does this for their web browsers, email, and office apps. I know the mutt users do in email, but my wife wouldn't use mutt, she would use some pretty HTMLized gui. I edit lengthy text files for server apps, and I have found them to be much easier, and faster than editing the massive tabbed configuration interfaces that MS apps are so fond of. > or even install it is easier than just popping a disc in the cd drive > and clicking next a few times, or the MS use of a COMMON interface, then > you haven't used windows in a long time and might need to open your eyes > a bit. > > > -Patrick I use it a bit daily, and my eyes are wide open. -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:07:08 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132207.fBDM775F022552@marauder.illiana.net> >From jegilliland@hotmail.com Mon Dec 10 10:29:32 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fBAGTV8j021766 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:29:31 -0600 Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:18:04 -0800 Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:18:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.219.133.131] From: "Eric Gilliland" To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: upgrading from mandrake 8.0 to 8.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2001 16:18:04.0784 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F296700:01C18196] Status: RO Hi everyone, Has anyone out there upgraded from mandrake 8.0 to 8.1? I am getting ready to do it and would appreciate any tips you could provide. I am running a dual boot, Win ME and Mandrake 8.0 system on a Dell Dimension 8100, 1.3 GHz P4, 256 megs of RAM, and a NVIDIA 32 meg video card. Also, is anyone familiar with the 3Com U.S. Robotics 56K V90 PCI Performance Pro Faxmodem Dos/NT/Linux? I am thinking about buying this modem so I can get on the internet under linux. Has anyone installed this modem under Mandrake 8.1? TIA, Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:07:12 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132207.fBDM7CMJ022569@marauder.illiana.net> >From edelman@speedscript.com Mon Dec 10 11:45:04 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fBAHix8j022962 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:45:04 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Richard Edelman Organization: Digital Simplistics To: kclug@kclug.org Subject: KDE & prelink X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-Id: <20011210174430Z153670-1822+25@thor.valueweb.net> Status: RO Is there anyone out there that has compiled KDE with prelink? Not objprelink, but the prelink utility written by Jakub Jelinek at Redhat. That one has greater potential and isn't as much of a hack as objprelink. I'm looking for a howto or advice, I searched mailing lists and websites all weekend long but could only find information about KDE & objprelink. Thanks in advance :) Rich From kclug at marauder.illiana.net Thu Dec 13 22:07:18 2001 From: kclug at marauder.illiana.net (KCLUG) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <200112132207.fBDM7I46022595@marauder.illiana.net> >From jfowler@westrope.com Mon Dec 10 15:05:23 2001 Return-Path: by marauder.illiana.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id fBAL5N8j029181 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:05:23 -0600 id ACE9D561DA; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:05:27 -0600 (CST) by red.westrope.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D0F4428B4 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:05:26 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: "Jeremy Fowler" To: "Kclug" Subject: Anybody out there? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Status: RO Is the list just dead or out of commission? Requests to majordomo@kclug.org are coming back user unknown. Somebody forget to pay the bill? ;-) : host marauder.illiana.net[207.227.243.140] said: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Thu Dec 13 22:32:20 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: KDE Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A39@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: KCLUG [mailto:kclug@marauder.illiana.net] > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:07 PM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: > > From edelman@speedscript.com Mon Dec 10 11:45:04 2001 > > Is there anyone out there that has compiled KDE with prelink? > Not objprelink, > but the prelink utility written by Jakub Jelinek at Redhat. > That one has > greater potential and isn't as much of a hack as objprelink. > I'm looking for > a howto or advice, I searched mailing lists and websites all > weekend long but > could only find information about KDE & objprelink. > > Thanks in advance :) > > Rich Umm, why are you compiling KDE? Are you a gluton for punishment, or working on development of KDE? From hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com Thu Dec 13 22:40:25 2001 From: hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com (Duston, Hal) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Test message Message-ID: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADF6@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> OK, Let's see what this does. And, no I'm not the admin. :-) Hal Duston Application Developer 913-906-4490 From edelman at speedscript.com Thu Dec 13 22:52:24 2001 From: edelman at speedscript.com (Richard Edelman) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: KDE In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A39@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <20011213225207Z200758-18739+16@thor.valueweb.net> On Thursday 13 December 2001 04:28 pm, Brian Densmore wrote: > Umm, why are you compiling KDE? Are you a gluton for punishment, or > working on development of KDE? > I like punishment. Lots. :) Actually, I'm sick of KDE being slow and wanted to optimize it for my machine. I happen to like KDE better than GNOME, so please don't give me that "Use GNOME stuff. And those of you CLI guys, stay away. :) I might just give up and switch to fvwm until g++ is fixed, heh. Rich From hutchins at opus1.com Thu Dec 13 23:28:50 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: HTML Messages Message-ID: <005801c1842d7960c0a@uhc.com> Do you all see why you need to TURN OFF HTML MESSAGES now? PLEASE? From derick at shark.zeni.net Thu Dec 13 23:58:18 2001 From: derick at shark.zeni.net (Don Erickson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: HTML Messages In-Reply-To: <005801c1842d7960c0a@uhc.com> Message-ID: <200112132358.fBDNwefd002778@shark.zeni.net> In article <005801c1842d$e8748670$17960c0a@uhc.com> you write: >Do you all see why you need to TURN OFF HTML MESSAGES now? PLEASE? I'm all for turning off HTML messages, but have no faith that education will achieve this. But, what happened that we should see the need for this now? What did I miss? Regards, -Don -- no HTML was used in the composition of this post. From mkc at mathdogs.com Fri Dec 14 02:18:01 2001 From: mkc at mathdogs.com (Mike Coleman) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: none In-Reply-To: <200112132206.fBDM6ltX022470@marauder.illiana.net> Message-ID: <871yhya6kj.fsf@mathdogs.com> KCLUG writes: > >From hutchins@opus1.com Mon Dec 10 08:40:07 2001 > Now there they might not be so far off. It's pretty well documented that > most BSOD problems are the result of bad hardware and/or bad drivers. I can confirm this. All of the Microsoft systems I've run that don't have hardware and/or drivers are rock-solid. :-) Mike -- Our local university offers a three hour course, College Algebra, which covers "elementary algebra, solution of equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic functions, inequalities, systems of linear equations, equations of second degree and their graphs, binomial theorem, complex numbers, and polynomials". They also offer a three hour course which covers Office 2000. Does this mean that Office is as simple to learn as College Algebra? From mkc at mathdogs.com Fri Dec 14 02:18:33 2001 From: mkc at mathdogs.com (Mike Coleman) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: none In-Reply-To: <200112132206.fBDM6ltX022470@marauder.illiana.net> Message-ID: <871yhya6kj.fsf@mathdogs.com> KCLUG writes: > >From hutchins@opus1.com Mon Dec 10 08:40:07 2001 > Now there they might not be so far off. It's pretty well documented that > most BSOD problems are the result of bad hardware and/or bad drivers. I can confirm this. All of the Microsoft systems I've run that don't have hardware and/or drivers are rock-solid. :-) Mike -- Our local university offers a three hour course, College Algebra, which covers "elementary algebra, solution of equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic functions, inequalities, systems of linear equations, equations of second degree and their graphs, binomial theorem, complex numbers, and polynomials". They also offer a three hour course which covers Office 2000. Does this mean that Office is as simple to learn as College Algebra? From hutchins at opus1.com Fri Dec 14 02:39:31 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: HTML Messages Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C917A@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Erickson [mailto:derick@shark.zeni.net] > In article <005801c1842d$e8748670$17960c0a@uhc.com> you write: > >Do you all see why you need to TURN OFF HTML MESSAGES now? PLEASE? > I'm all for turning off HTML messages, but have no faith that > education will achieve this. But, what happened that we should > see the need for this now? What did I miss? The messages that got re-sent by the list software were formatted so that my reader, at least, didn't translate the HTML but treated it as text. I was hoping that if people saw what sewage they were spewing all over the internet they might take it seriously. Interestingly, it's not all Microsoft's fault, several of the HTML culprits are using Netscape Messenger. I now recall that there were a couple of the several mail programs that come with Mandrake 8.1 which default to sending HTML. TURN IT OFF PEOPLE, PLEASE! You don't need HTML to format a paragraph of text in an email! From gedascher at multiservice.com Fri Dec 14 13:21:25 2001 From: gedascher at multiservice.com (Gene Dascher) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: M$ settlement article Message-ID: Article about M$ settlement. At the end is contact information for the DOJ. Use it and let them know how you feel about the proposed settlement. http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20011206.html From gedascher at multiservice.com Fri Dec 14 13:36:31 2001 From: gedascher at multiservice.com (Gene Dascher) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Lilo Message-ID: I have Mandrake 8.1 installed on my Dell Laptop. I have a dual boot config with Win98, which I Had to reinstall this week. After reinstalling and rebooting, I got the LIL- with nothing else. So I rebooted using my Mandrake boot floppy. I logged on as root and ran lilo -v to load LILO back up in the boot sector BUT I got the message : Kernel vmlinuz is too big. This is a stock kernel, so I need to know how to successfully run LILO without having to recompile my kernel. Any suggestions? Thanks, Gene From ainzerillo at billsoft.com Fri Dec 14 13:39:16 2001 From: ainzerillo at billsoft.com (Andy Inzerillo) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Computer User magazine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am pretty new to the IT administration world. I just started reading Computer User (as opposed to looking at the pretty pictures like I used to). Has anyone read "Ask Dr. Deeram" in the back part this month? Every answer to every question is solved by upgrading to Windows XP. Is this guy related to Bill, or just on his payroll? From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Fri Dec 14 14:40:54 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Tricking webserver into believing Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A3B@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Anyone know how webservers query browsers for OS and browser info? I need to force my box at home to make 2 certain web addresses believe I am coming in from Windoze, with Explorer or Netscape 4.7 and using 128 bit encryption. There has got to be a way to do this. I am currently running Mandrake 8.0 with a 2.4.16 kernel KDE 2.1.1 and Konqueror 2.1.1 and Netscape 6.x I have talked with one of the sites and it's like talking to a stone wall. I have Konqueror supposedly transmitting a different string (user agent), but the servers always come back with the default value (well one does anyway, the other just gives me a raspberry). One of the sites supposedly supports Redhat 6.1. Grrr! TIA, Brian Densmore Associate CompuTech Business Solutions, Inc. http://www.ctbsonline.com/ (816) 880-0988 x215 From cstein at newtek.com Fri Dec 14 15:03:11 2001 From: cstein at newtek.com (Charles Steinkuehler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Tricking webserver into believing In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A3B@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <071f01c184b00f02330d011c0a@csteinathlon> > Anyone know how webservers query browsers for OS and browser info? I > need to force my box at home to make 2 certain web addresses believe I > am coming in from Windoze, with Explorer or Netscape 4.7 and using 128 > bit encryption. There has got to be a way to do this. > I am currently running Mandrake 8.0 with a 2.4.16 kernel > KDE 2.1.1 and > Konqueror 2.1.1 > and Netscape 6.x > > I have talked with one of the sites and it's like talking to a stone > wall. > I have Konqueror supposedly transmitting a different string (user > agent), but the servers always come back with the default value (well > one does anyway, the other just gives me a raspberry). One of the sites > supposedly supports Redhat 6.1. > > Grrr! There are a few ways I'm aware of. The actual web server itself can generally only look at the headers provided along with the http query. These are generated by the browser, and may be at least partially under your control (depends on your browser). You can usually put up a small CGI script to see what headers your browser is sending...most web servers pass all the provided headers along to CGI scripts in one form or another. It's also possible for the actual web *content* to ID your browser. This is done through various tricks, usually with java, java-script, or something that actually executes on the client browser. It will likely be much harder to 'trick' one of these sites... Charles Steinkuehler charles@steinkuehler.net From hutchins at opus1.com Fri Dec 14 15:07:22 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C917D@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: KCLUG [mailto:kclug@marauder.illiana.net] > Has anyone out there upgraded from mandrake 8.0 to 8.1? I had no problems with it - I'd describe the main difference as the feeling that 8.1 is "cleaned up" a bit more. Still a ways to go, I hear that the current releases of KDE and some other packages are faster and have fewer problems. From hutchins at opus1.com Fri Dec 14 15:07:26 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C917D@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: KCLUG [mailto:kclug@marauder.illiana.net] > Has anyone out there upgraded from mandrake 8.0 to 8.1? I had no problems with it - I'd describe the main difference as the feeling that 8.1 is "cleaned up" a bit more. Still a ways to go, I hear that the current releases of KDE and some other packages are faster and have fewer problems. From mrkshrt at transparentsolutions.com Fri Dec 14 15:37:05 2001 From: mrkshrt at transparentsolutions.com (mrkshrt@transparentsolutions.com) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Tricking webserver into believing Message-ID: <81E72D5DAFE7D311BA5F00A0CC58627809FFA5@EXCHANGE> In Perl, using CPAN modules: use HTTP::Request::Common qw(POST); use LWP::UserAgent; #look at your web logs for what string(s) should be here $ua = LWP::UserAgent->new("Whatever you want it to look like to serverMozilla/5 (beezlebub)"); my $req = POST 'http://www.targeturl.com/target.cgi', [field1 => 'field1value', field2 => 'field2value', 'field.3' =>'field3value']; $content = $ua->request($req)->as_string; $content will contain the text that would have come back to your browser, along with headers. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Brian Densmore [mailto:DensmoreB@ctbsonline.com] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:37 AM To: KCLUG (E-mail) Subject: Tricking webserver into believing Anyone know how webservers query browsers for OS and browser info? I need to force my box at home to make 2 certain web addresses believe I am coming in from Windoze, with Explorer or Netscape 4.7 and using 128 bit encryption. There has got to be a way to do this. I am currently running Mandrake 8.0 with a 2.4.16 kernel KDE 2.1.1 and Konqueror 2.1.1 and Netscape 6.x I have talked with one of the sites and it's like talking to a stone wall. I have Konqueror supposedly transmitting a different string (user agent), but the servers always come back with the default value (well one does anyway, the other just gives me a raspberry). One of the sites supposedly supports Redhat 6.1. Grrr! TIA, Brian Densmore Associate CompuTech Business Solutions, Inc. http://www.ctbsonline.com/ (816) 880-0988 x215 From gerald at ethereal.com Fri Dec 14 15:59:37 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Tricking webserver into believing In-Reply-To: <81E72D5DAFE7D311BA5F00A0CC58627809FFA5@EXCHANGE> Message-ID: Ethereal will do this as well. After running a capture, select one of the HTTP packets, then select Tools->Follow TCP Stream. A window will pop up that shows the conversation between the browser and the server, including the headers. On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 mrkshrt@transparentsolutions.com wrote: > In Perl, using CPAN modules: > > use HTTP::Request::Common qw(POST); > use LWP::UserAgent; > #look at your web logs for what string(s) should be here > $ua = LWP::UserAgent->new("Whatever you want it to look like to > serverMozilla/5 (beezlebub)"); > my $req = POST 'http://www.targeturl.com/target.cgi', > [field1 => 'field1value', > field2 => 'field2value', > 'field.3' =>'field3value']; > $content = $ua->request($req)->as_string; > > $content will contain the text that would have come back to your browser, > along with headers. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Densmore [mailto:DensmoreB@ctbsonline.com] > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:37 AM > To: KCLUG (E-mail) > Subject: Tricking webserver into believing > > > Anyone know how webservers query browsers for OS and browser info? I > need to force my box at home to make 2 certain web addresses believe I > am coming in from Windoze, with Explorer or Netscape 4.7 and using 128 > bit encryption. There has got to be a way to do this. > I am currently running Mandrake 8.0 with a 2.4.16 kernel > KDE 2.1.1 and > Konqueror 2.1.1 > and Netscape 6.x > > I have talked with one of the sites and it's like talking to a stone > wall. > I have Konqueror supposedly transmitting a different string (user > agent), but the servers always come back with the default value (well > one does anyway, the other just gives me a raspberry). One of the sites > supposedly supports Redhat 6.1. > > Grrr! > > TIA, > Brian Densmore > > Associate > CompuTech Business Solutions, Inc. > http://www.ctbsonline.com/ > (816) 880-0988 x215 > > > > > From hutchins at opus1.com Fri Dec 14 17:18:50 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Tricking webserver into believing In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A3B@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <001501c184c3c6b60307960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Densmore" > Anyone know how webservers query browsers for OS and browser info? I > need to force my box at home to make 2 certain web addresses believe I > am coming in from Windoze, with Explorer or Netscape 4.7 and using 128 > bit encryption. There has got to be a way to do this. Should be able to get Netscape to work. Have you tried the Linux 4.7? It's probably the encryption that's hanging you up, not the browser or OS ID. From chris at datacaptech.com Fri Dec 14 19:39:45 2001 From: chris at datacaptech.com (Chris Midkiff) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Tricking webserver into believing In-Reply-To: <001501c184c3c6b60307960c0a@uhc.com> Message-ID: Don't know whether it will do you any good in this case, but Opera will allow you to set the BrowserID string to whatever you want. Worth a shot, but I don't think Opera supports 128bit Crypto... Chris Midkiff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Densmore" > Anyone know how webservers query browsers for OS and browser info? I > need to force my box at home to make 2 certain web addresses believe I > am coming in from Windoze, with Explorer or Netscape 4.7 and using 128 > bit encryption. There has got to be a way to do this. Should be able to get Netscape to work. Have you tried the Linux 4.7? It's probably the encryption that's hanging you up, not the browser or OS ID. From rcb at kc.rr.com Fri Dec 14 20:17:24 2001 From: rcb at kc.rr.com (Bob Batson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: List Admin.? (Was Re: Test message) In-Reply-To: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BADF6@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Message-ID: At 4:40 PM -0600 12/13/01, Duston, Hal wrote: >OK, Let's see what this does. > >And, no I'm not the admin. Who is the admin.? -- Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W rcb@kc.rr.com Kansas City TCS - Mystic Fire Priest USDA Zone 5 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will do exactly as it pleases. From jared at dctkc.com Fri Dec 14 20:53:14 2001 From: jared at dctkc.com (DCT Jared Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: HTML text Message-ID: <001301c184e17d7af30c01a8c0@graphics> Typically, demanding that people meet the lowest common denominator is a proposition which requires a degree of patience, for it is, in fact, impossible by virtue of force alone. Ie. Advocates of the simple life are best left off the billboards, lest the simple life be perceived as complicated, like everything else on the billboards. Ie. You want text-only e-mail? Write a bit of script that strips out "document.innerText" for each incoming e-mail. That's the Linux solution, is it not? The Perl solution went like this. When Larry Wall had finished the first version of Perl, and he knew he had a great toolkit for everyone to use, he refused to throw it into the 'advocacy' pits by creating a perl newsgroup. Here is how he got around it. He and a few others quietly remained on C and Unix news- groups and answered people's questions competently... in C and Unix. Then he would conclude the answer with a note like this: "... and if you really wanted to solve it right, you'd use Perl like this..." and he'd give the Perl solution as well. I personally believe this is why Perl has such a devoted following--he never displaced anyone; simply offered a better way. Quietly, politely. Someone have a place I can pay these two cents in my pocket? -Jared From jegilliland at hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 17:07:35 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: boot disc problem Message-ID: Hi everybody, i have a slight proble. I recently upgraded from Mandrake 8.0 to 8.1. I had other problems, but those are mostly solved now, thanks to mandrakeexpert.com. However, there is another slight problem. I made a boot disc. When I tested it, I got the message "could not find ramdisk image initrd.img" ANy idea what this is and how to fix it? Thanks in advance, Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From chuckx at cold-sun.com Sun Dec 16 02:16:28 2001 From: chuckx at cold-sun.com (Charles K. Lee II) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: boot disc problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011216022010.GA1032@kc.rr.com> The easiest way to make the problem go away is to format and then recreate the boot disk. It's not really worth trying to dig around on the disk trying to find the cause of the problem when you can just make a new one in a couple minutes. -- - chuckx | Charles K. Lee II - - chuckx@cold-sun.com - - http://www.cold-sun.com - -- From jfowler at westrope.com Sun Dec 16 05:23:54 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Majordomo Subject Prefix Message-ID: I don't know about anyone else, but I would really enjoy having a subject prefix on all our messages. It would make sorting messages so much easier. It wouldn't be that hard, just add the following line to the list's majordomo config file. subject_prefix = [KCLUG] However, that's just my opinion. Perhaps a vote is in order. -Jeremy From Jim at itdepends.com Sun Dec 16 08:12:42 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Majordomo Subject Prefix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0dbf433120810c1FE4@mail4.kc.rr.com> I agree. However, with Kmail, I just filter on the "to:" and it goes to a seperate folder. Works great. HTH, Jim On Saturday 15 December 2001 11:27 pm, Jeremy Fowler wrote: > I don't know about anyone else, but I would really enjoy having a subject > prefix on all our messages. It would make sorting messages so much easier. > It wouldn't be that hard, just add the following line to the list's > majordomo config file. > > subject_prefix = [KCLUG] > > However, that's just my opinion. Perhaps a vote is in order. -Jeremy > > > > From cheongs at gmate.com Sun Dec 16 09:35:08 2001 From: cheongs at gmate.com (cheongs@gmate.com) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: The Multimedia Linux Color PDA "YOPY" Revealed Now! Message-ID: Hello, YOPY lover! We at G.Mate, Inc. have ceaselessly developed the YOPY for a long time to make a good product you would be able to love. I would like to thank you for your patience first. Thanks to your kindness and encouragement, we have become to release the commercial version of the YOPY through the website first. You can get information on the product and the sale on www.gmate.com in more detail. We wish that you can enjoy the YOPY with innovative design and features and that you can always be with us to make a better product and a better world. We are always willing to do our best for shaping them with your concern and help. If you have any questions on the YOPY, please do not hesitate to contact me anytime. Best Regards, Seungchae Manager Sales & Marketing G.Mate, Inc. E-mail: cheongs@gmate.com Tel: 82-31-738-1209 Fax: 82-31-738-1212 From chuckx at cold-sun.com Sun Dec 16 16:02:58 2001 From: chuckx at cold-sun.com (Charles K. Lee II) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Majordomo Subject Prefix In-Reply-To: <0dbf433120810c1FE4@mail4.kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <20011216160654.GA1924@kc.rr.com> On Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 02:13:21AM -0600, Jim Herrmann wrote: > However, with Kmail, I just filter on the "to:" and it goes to a > seperate folder. Works great. > > On Saturday 15 December 2001 11:27 pm, Jeremy Fowler wrote: > > prefix on all our messages. It would make sorting messages so much easier. Or, if you use procmail, this little recipe is all you need in your procmailrc file. :0: * ^TO_kclug* kclug I'm using the wildcard to cope with the kclug@marauder.illiana.net address that popped up after the server troubles. Anyway, just relace the third line with the name of the mailbox you want the messages to go to, and you'll be set. -- - chuckx | Charles K. Lee II - - chuckx@cold-sun.com - - http://www.cold-sun.com - -- From paulb at savagesoft.com Sun Dec 16 16:54:19 2001 From: paulb at savagesoft.com (paulb@savagesoft.com) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Majordomo Subject Prefix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I like that to. Paul Barham www.savage.com - Buy and Sell Art On Sat, 15 Dec 2001, Jeremy Fowler wrote: > I don't know about anyone else, but I would really enjoy having a subject prefix > on all our messages. It would make sorting messages so much easier. It wouldn't > be that hard, just add the following line to the list's majordomo config file. > > subject_prefix = [KCLUG] > > However, that's just my opinion. Perhaps a vote is in order. -Jeremy > > > > > From lists at kc.rr.com Sun Dec 16 16:57:55 2001 From: lists at kc.rr.com (Monty J. Harder) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Majordomo Subject Prefix In-Reply-To: <20011216160654.GA1924@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <000f01c186524581a41@Dexter> > Or, if you use procmail, this little recipe is all you need in your > procmailrc file. > > :0: > * ^TO_kclug* > kclug Betcha this one didn't get filtered correctly. (Hint: mail can be delivered to a cc/bcc address, too.)1 From ka0jlf at earthlink.net Sun Dec 16 17:35:46 2001 From: ka0jlf at earthlink.net (Don Pfister) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Majordomo Subject Prefix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C1CDB7A.D8A12F10@earthlink.net> FWIW, I wouldn't mind it either. Possibly even a digest (this may exist, I'm new and haven't checked). Thanks for letting me put my 2 cents in, Don Jeremy Fowler wrote: > I don't know about anyone else, but I would really enjoy having a subject prefix > on all our messages. It would make sorting messages so much easier. It wouldn't > be that hard, just add the following line to the list's majordomo config file. > > subject_prefix = [KCLUG] > > However, that's just my opinion. Perhaps a vote is in order. -Jeremy > -- [Signature File] Name=Don Pfister KA0JLF HABITAT SkyLab soon to add SeaLab (underwater robotics) (High Altitude Basic Investigation Testing And Tracking) Email=ka0jlf@earthlink.net or dpfister@grapevine.net or donp@netlab.org http://habitat.netlab.org http://www.kc.net/~dpfister http://www.netlab.org/~donp http://home.earthlink.net/~ka0jlf http://home.kc.rr.com/cdpfister/ http://www.netlab.org:8888/ Visit the Lab in the Hobby wing. HABITAT being built... view stations on the web real time (~3 minute updates): http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KA0JLF Home http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KA0JLF-9 van http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KA0JLF-11 balloon From chuckx at cold-sun.com Sun Dec 16 19:05:13 2001 From: chuckx at cold-sun.com (Charles K. Lee II) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Majordomo Subject Prefix In-Reply-To: <000f01c186524581a41@Dexter> Message-ID: <20011216190920.GA2247@kc.rr.com> On Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 10:58:01AM -0600, Monty J. Harder wrote: > Betcha this one didn't get filtered correctly. (Hint: mail can be > delivered to a cc/bcc address, too.)1 Actually it did. Here's a little excerpt from the procmailrc man page: If the regular expression contains '^TO_' it will be substituted by (^((Original-)?(Resent-)?(To|Cc|Bcc)|(X-Envelope|Apparently(-Resent)?)-To) :(.*[^-a-zA-Z0-9_.])?)', which should catch all destination specifications containing a specific address. -- - chuckx | Charles K. Lee II - - chuckx@cold-sun.com - - http://www.cold-sun.com - -- From rcb at kc.rr.com Sun Dec 16 20:43:37 2001 From: rcb at kc.rr.com (Bob Batson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Majordomo Subject Prefix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:27 PM -0600 12/15/01, Jeremy Fowler wrote: >I don't know about anyone else, but I would really enjoy having a >subject prefix >on all our messages. It would make sorting messages so much easier. >It wouldn't >be that hard, just add the following line to the list's majordomo config file. > >subject_prefix = [KCLUG] > >However, that's just my opinion. Perhaps a vote is in order. -Jeremy I too prefer KCLUG messages with subject prefixes....but I thought that this had been corrected to how we prefer. -- Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W rcb@kc.rr.com Kansas City TCS - Mystic Fire Priest USDA Zone 5 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will do exactly as it pleases. From davideng at ponyexpress.net Sun Dec 16 22:21:29 2001 From: davideng at ponyexpress.net (David P. Engvall) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL Message-ID: <3C1D1FAF.A29E339F@ponyexpress.net> kclug << A friend of mind is a Windows software developer. He tells me that he isn't interested in developing anything using Open Source tools because anything he develops will also be open source and he wouldn't be able to sell it. I think there is a way to use Open Source tools and not necessarily be required to release the source for the resulting software. Can you give some advice that I can pass along to him and/or refer me to links that discuss this subject. Thank you in advance. Dave From dhageman at dracken.com Mon Dec 17 03:13:20 2001 From: dhageman at dracken.com (D. Hageman) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL In-Reply-To: <3C1D1FAF.A29E339F@ponyexpress.net> Message-ID: I think your friend probably should do his research before making such claims. He needs to re-read (or read for the first time) the GPL. You can find it at http://www.gnu.org After reading it, I think it will be fairly obvious what one can do and can not do. On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, David P. Engvall wrote: > kclug << > > A friend of mind is a Windows software developer. He tells me that he isn't interested > in developing > anything using Open Source tools because anything he develops will also be open source > and he > wouldn't be able to sell it. I think there is a way to use Open Source tools and not > necessarily be required > to release the source for the resulting software. Can you give some advice that I can > pass along to him and/or > refer me to links that discuss this subject. > > Thank you in advance. > > Dave > > > > -- //========================================================\ || D. Hageman || \========================================================// From Jim at itdepends.com Mon Dec 17 05:37:25 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL In-Reply-To: <3C1D1FAF.A29E339F@ponyexpress.net> Message-ID: <07c8b44360511c1FE7@mail7.kc.rr.com> Sounds like M$-FUD has got the best of this friend of yours. "Open source is a virus that could destroy the commercial software industry. Therefore, congress should outlaw it." As long as he doesn't use the actual source of an open source project, he doesn't have to open his own source. Even if he opens his source, he can still sell the product that is based on the open source, just like the distos do. I agree with D. in that he should read the GPL, or at least read something other than M$ spin. Peace, Jim On Sunday 16 December 2001 04:26 pm, David P. Engvall wrote: > kclug << > > A friend of mind is a Windows software developer. He tells me that he > isn't interested in developing > anything using Open Source tools because anything he develops will also be > open source and he > wouldn't be able to sell it. I think there is a way to use Open Source > tools and not necessarily be required > to release the source for the resulting software. Can you give some advice > that I can pass along to him and/or > refer me to links that discuss this subject. > > Thank you in advance. > > Dave > > > From Jim at itdepends.com Mon Dec 17 05:56:37 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Desktop Linux Message-ID: <03f5f15570511c1FE6@mail6.kc.rr.com> I wrote this and sent it about the time the list went down. I felt it was important enough to save and resend. I hope you enjoy reading it. I'd just like to comment on all the threads about Linux vs. Windoze on the desktop. I really think this is an important thread, or threads, that do(es) deserve a great deal of discussion. The desktop environment is really important. Anyone who was in IT when the PC came about should recognize this. In the 80's everyone had a terminal either on their desk, or perhaps even in a shared room of terminals where one had to leave their desks to go get on the computer. Slowly a few PCs filtered in doing stupid little unimportant things, and they were mostly pooh-poohed by the IT (actually back then it was the "DP") staff. Those damn things will never replace the Mainframe/DECVax/Unix Server. Well, the people who could afford PCs, i.e. upper management who had lots of disposable income, started getting PCs at home, and what did they run? DOS and later Windows 3.1. These management people started asking their technical people why they couldn't have one of those new fangled typewriters on their desk. One thing led to another and the next thing you know a little known company called Micro-Soft makes a few clever marketing and licensing moves, and boom! They are on the verge of world domination. Don't underestimate the power of the desktop, the home user desktop, to influence the world of computing. Linux is making in roads in a somewhat different way. It is starting above and below the desktop. It is a killer server OS and is also becoming a very important player in the upper end of embedded devices. For Linux to make in roads into the desktop market, it will take grass roots support. It will take people in Linux User Groups all over the world advocating the use of Linux to their friends, relatives, and co-workers. It will require those advocates to "give back" to the open source community, from which they benefit so greatly, by giving a copy of Linux to some of those friends, and helping those friends out when they have trouble. It means burning CDs and giving them away, answering phone calls, going to peoples houses to help them with installs, answering questions, assisting with kernel or distro version upgrades, demonstrating how to install a new RPM, showing them that it's not really that hard to do compiles in Linux (my 11 year old figured it out after I showed him once). It will take time. Calendar time, and people time. The most valuable gift you can give anyone is the gift of time. Spend some time talking to your friends and relatives about how great Linux is. Spend some time with them helping them find that elusive video driver that allows their 17 inch monitor to display something better than VGA. Spend some time with them tracking down the library they are missing when they try to run TuxRacer and it fails. I would like to challenge each and every one of you on this list to set as a goal, to help at least 10 people to convert to Linux by Christmas of 2002. That's less than one each month. If every one of you did that, there would be at least 2000 *new* Linux users in KC by next year. If every one of those did the same thing the following year, there would be 14000, and in five years, if this trend continued, the entire city would be converted to Linux. I realize that's a bit over optimistic, but I think you see my point. Linux is a great OS, and a pretty damn fine desktop operating system! Tell everyone you know. Make them aware that there is an alternative to the M$-Hell they've been in. Let them know that they *can* say NO to paying continuing extortion fees, and that you can help them make the switch. In fact tell them about KCLUG, and that we'll ALL help them make the switch! :-) Advocate freedom! Peace, Love, Linux, and Happy Holidays, Jim Herrmann President, Heart of America DB2 Users Group From Jim at itdepends.com Mon Dec 17 06:06:08 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Making Linux look harder than it is Message-ID: <045d146060611c1FE6@mail6.kc.rr.com> This is an interesting article that applies well to our recent discussion on the Linux desktop and advocacy and all that. Enjoy. http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/12/05/1259245&mode=thread From tonyz at ctitek.com Mon Dec 17 06:31:37 2001 From: tonyz at ctitek.com (Tony Zafiropoulos) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL In-Reply-To: <3C1D1FAF.A29E339F@ponyexpress.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, David P. Engvall wrote: > kclug << > > Can you give some advice that I can pass along to him and/or > refer me to links that discuss this subject. > > Thank you in advance. > > Dave I hope this helps: www.opensource.org www.li.org Isn't this the question: Because source is given away... how does one make money??? 1. Time or services 2. Hardware has open source drivers but does not sell software to get more people to purchase the hardware 3. Give away the basic version and sell a 'value add' version 4. Sell the CD's but not a license (RedHat and SuSE) 5. Books... Noteriety... Speech circuit. O'Reilly is one. Use some examples that make sense to them (not sure their background... ) Perl was given away DNS (named) Sendmail (and other mail programs) And there are many licensing models which purport to be open source... Not just GPL (LGPL, FreeBSD Copyright, StarOffice, etc...) Isn't there a list somewhere (can't remember now). Happy Holidays, -- Tony Zafiropoulos FixMyVirus.com Cel: 314-504-3974 tonyz@fixmyvirus.com "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people through their righteous might will win through to absolute victory." Franklin D. Roosevelt - 12/8/1941 12:30pm From zscoundrel at kc.rr.com Mon Dec 17 07:39:48 2001 From: zscoundrel at kc.rr.com (zscoundrel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:48 2004 Subject: Desktop Linux In-Reply-To: <03f5f15570511c1FE6@mail6.kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <3C1DA1E0.2070405@kc.rr.com> That is a fabulous idea Jim, and a goal of 10 is a good - if perhaps aggressive - goal. I have been ruminating on this lately and have discovered several things which give me hope in the cause so I will share them here. The first thought came to me earlier this week when I took my dual-boot laptop to work to show a co-worker how slick Linux really is. He was impressed by the interface, dual boot, availability of a Windows emulator, but mostly, he was impressed with the graphical interface. During the course of our discussion I realized that I have not NEEDED to compile an optimized kernel since RH 6.0. While this may not sound like a big deal, this is news because the bulk of the everyday users will not want to recompile a kernel to get the software to perform well, and half of those will never be able to figure out how to do it anyway. The second came while talking to my mother about the new Gateway she is buying. to replace the old P2x233 that has 4 different versions of AOL and about 666 el cheapo games and applications loaded on it. Gateway was giving her the hard sell to buy the machine with XP preloaded - Ugh!!! With all the horror storys about the registration problems, I just don't think I can let someone get locked into software license extortion. The third came this afternoon when I finally got around to upgrading netscape 6.01 to 6.21. I have been pretty down lately because of the number of problems with the beta version of N6. Plug-ins that couldn't be found, total app lock-ups with JAVA or 128 bit secured sites. These problems that even baffled tech support when it was first released because we would find the problem and fix it only to have it happen again. Well, 6.21 fixed the problems and I am amazed at how little 'Linux' skill it took for me to accomplish the install. None of these may seem like a major event, but all three things combined have convinced me that Linux IS ready for prime time. So, I am going to see if I can figure out how to get a windows emulator running (I was never interested before - it always seemed like cheating!) to facilitate all those 'el cheapo' games and apps that my mother can't seem to live without and then I am going to put Linux up on her old PC after a complete fdisk. This, my friends, is a MAJOR milestone. I have not put an OS on one of her PC's since DOS 5.0!!! Jim Herrmann wrote: >I wrote this and sent it about the time the list went down. I felt it was >important enough to save and resend. I hope you enjoy reading it. > > > >I'd just like to comment on all the threads about Linux vs. Windoze on the >desktop. I really think this is an important thread, or threads, that do(es) >deserve a great deal of discussion. The desktop environment is really >important. Anyone who was in IT when the PC came about should recognize >this. In the 80's everyone had a terminal either on their desk, or perhaps >even in a shared room of terminals where one had to leave their desks to go >get on the computer. Slowly a few PCs filtered in doing stupid little >unimportant things, and they were mostly pooh-poohed by the IT (actually back >then it was the "DP") staff. Those damn things will never replace the >Mainframe/DECVax/Unix Server. Well, the people who could afford PCs, i.e. >upper management who had lots of disposable income, started getting PCs at >home, and what did they run? DOS and later Windows 3.1. These management >people started asking their technical people why they couldn't have one of >those new fangled typewriters on their desk. One thing led to another and >the next thing you know a little known company called Micro-Soft makes a few >clever marketing and licensing moves, and boom! They are on the verge of >world domination. Don't underestimate the power of the desktop, the home >user desktop, to influence the world of computing. > >Linux is making in roads in a somewhat different way. It is starting above >and below the desktop. It is a killer server OS and is also becoming a very >important player in the upper end of embedded devices. For Linux to make in >roads into the desktop market, it will take grass roots support. It will >take people in Linux User Groups all over the world advocating the use of >Linux to their friends, relatives, and co-workers. It will require those >advocates to "give back" to the open source community, from which they >benefit so greatly, by giving a copy of Linux to some of those friends, and >helping those friends out when they have trouble. It means burning CDs and >giving them away, answering phone calls, going to peoples houses to help them >with installs, answering questions, assisting with kernel or distro version >upgrades, demonstrating how to install a new RPM, showing them that it's not >really that hard to do compiles in Linux (my 11 year old figured it out after >I showed him once). It will take time. Calendar time, and people time. The >most valuable gift you can give anyone is the gift of time. Spend some time >talking to your friends and relatives about how great Linux is. Spend some >time with them helping them find that elusive video driver that allows their >17 inch monitor to display something better than VGA. Spend some time with >them tracking down the library they are missing when they try to run TuxRacer >and it fails. > >I would like to challenge each and every one of you on this list to set as a >goal, to help at least 10 people to convert to Linux by Christmas of 2002. >That's less than one each month. If every one of you did that, there would >be at least 2000 *new* Linux users in KC by next year. If every one of those >did the same thing the following year, there would be 14000, and in five >years, if this trend continued, the entire city would be converted to Linux. > >I realize that's a bit over optimistic, but I think you see my point. Linux >is a great OS, and a pretty damn fine desktop operating system! Tell >everyone you know. Make them aware that there is an alternative to the >M$-Hell they've been in. Let them know that they *can* say NO to paying >continuing extortion fees, and that you can help them make the switch. In >fact tell them about KCLUG, and that we'll ALL help them make the switch! :-) > >Advocate freedom! > >Peace, Love, Linux, and Happy Holidays, >Jim Herrmann >President, Heart of America DB2 Users Group > > > -- At 20, I was liberal, because I had nothing to lose and so much to gain. by 40, I was conservative, because I had so much to lose and so little to gain. Isn't it amazing what 20 years of hard work and experience will do for ones' point of view? From jdfranklin.public at moheck.com Mon Dec 17 14:52:46 2001 From: jdfranklin.public at moheck.com (Franklin, Joel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL Message-ID: <670AD4787C63D41194350008C786649D02A01630@KCMOMAIL1> > A friend of mind is a Windows software developer. He tells me that he isn't interested > in developing > anything using Open Source tools because anything he develops will also be open source > and he > wouldn't be able to sell it. I think there is a way to use Open Source tools and not > necessarily be required > to release the source for the resulting software. Can you give some advice that I can > pass along to him and/or > refer me to links that discuss this subject. "A friend of mine is a Windows software developer. He tells me that he isn't interested in developing anything using Microsoft tools because anything he develops will also be a Microsoft tool and he wouldn't be able to sell it. I think there is a way to use Microsoft tools and net necessarily be required to make Microsoft the owner of the resulting software. Can you give some advice that I can pass along to him..." Point out the logical fallacies in my restatement of your questions. Point out that the situation is no different for Borland development tools (may they rest in peace), Sun development tools, etc. Point out that the same logic applies to his belief regarding GNU development tools. While you're at it, point out the presence of GNU utilities in the Windows NT 4.0 resource kit and the GNU software available for download from Microsoft's web site (sorry, lost the link on this one). Also, point your friend in the direction of the "intellectual property FAQ" (google for the bit in quotes), as it may clear up some of his more genearal misconceptions regarding ownership of his copyrighted creations. Joel Franklin ------------- P.S. Whether or not your friend is himself a Microsoft tool is an open question :) On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, David P. Engvall wrote: > kclug << > > > Thank you in advance. > > Dave > > > > From jared at dctkc.com Mon Dec 17 14:58:15 2001 From: jared at dctkc.com (DCT Jared Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: advocacy Message-ID: <004801c1870b1f05ab0c01a8c0@graphics> For those who are considering leaping into the proposed religious war, advocating Linux to ten people by year-end as a solution to all computer-related problems, realize that the best convert is the one who is inspired to join, and one who is coerced is actually a liability. Far from being a discouraging word, this e-mail is to bring a word of consideration; the idea of converting 10 people to Linux within a year's time... is a marketer's approach to Linux. A much more "Free Software"-like approach involves harder work: find an open source project out there which really inspires you, and work on it. Spend extra time each week, learning the language if you must, combing through the code and fixing bugs to make the project better. The enthusiasm fired up by this sort of endeavor will spread over into your everyday life like no other marketing technique. People are inspired by hard workers. Work hard, and Linux will always attract hard workers. Go out and convert, and you'll attract a bunch of people who want to go out and convert. Better to make Linux rock solid, than to import a bunch of corrupted files... -Jared From j_a_greene at yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 15:15:20 2001 From: j_a_greene at yahoo.com (J Greene) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: For sale Message-ID: <20011217151541.16161.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> Passing along this info that was given to me. For sale Dell Power Edge 9 months old 5 yr warranty 2U form factor PIII 600 512 ram 2 x 9GB SCSI drives maybe 18GB drives and not 9GB - I'd have to check Hardware raid $1500 Lemme know Jason ===== http://www.hailmaryfullofgrace.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Mon Dec 17 15:26:37 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL In-Reply-To: <3C1D1FAF.A29E339F@ponyexpress.net> Message-ID: <20011217092702.A8381@katya> Just tell him that is a bunch of crap. There is no requirement in the GPL that gcc is written under that says you have to do anything with your resulting binary, unless you embedded gcc in the project itself. IT WILL ONLY BE OPEN SOURCE IF HE MAKES IT SO, OR IF HE CHOOSES TO USE AN ALTERED VERSION OF AN OPEN SOURCE PROJECT, AND THEN ONLY THE ALTERED PROJECT CODE HAS TO BE OPENED UP. IF HE CHANGES THE CODE TO SAY REGEX TO, AND PLANS ON SELLING THE PRODUCT THAT HE IS SHIPPING THAT WITH, THEN HE MUST SEND GNU IN THIS CASE THE SOURCE CHANGES HE HAD MADE. NOTHING MORE IS REQUIRED. On Sun, Dec , at 04:26:55PM -0600, David P. Engvall wrote: > kclug << > > A friend of mind is a Windows software developer. He tells me that he isn't interested > in developing > anything using Open Source tools because anything he develops will also be open source > and he > wouldn't be able to sell it. I think there is a way to use Open Source tools and not > necessarily be required > to release the source for the resulting software. Can you give some advice that I can > pass along to him and/or > refer me to links that discuss this subject. > > Thank you in advance. > > Dave > > > -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From MILLERO at leavenworth.army.mil Mon Dec 17 15:31:16 2001 From: MILLERO at leavenworth.army.mil (Miller, Oscar MILLERO) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Unsubscribe Message-ID: <0B602CCEA5C7D41193F000508B6FA89301518EF7@kshgnc05.leavenworth.army.mil> > -----Original Message----- > From: Miller, Oscar MILLERO > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:31 AM > To: 'KCLug' > Cc: 'KCLug' > Subject: Unsubscribe > > unsubscribe KClug From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Mon Dec 17 15:34:36 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Emulators Message-ID: <3C1E10A2.2080706@innovision.com> I've never worked with any of the M$ emulators, but how do they perform? A fellow developer claimed that a Win95 emulator on his Linux box actually ran some programs *faster*. If the performance drop isn't that bad, I could forsee not having to run Windoze at all. I just use Win98 for media playing and a few PC games. From j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 16:25:23 2001 From: j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com (jose sanchez) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo Message-ID: <20011217162535.71836.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> Hello: I have a little problem: I have 96mb of memory, Linux is only detecting or reading 64mb. I added append="mem=96mb" in the lilo.conf file; reinstalled lilo by typing lilo and even restarted the system but the kernel is still reading 64mb. Why is this happening? Any one? Thanks in advance for your help. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From manuel at stjohnsprepschool.org Mon Dec 17 18:02:14 2001 From: manuel at stjohnsprepschool.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Manuel_Garcia?=) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[nylug-talk]_Lilo?= In-Reply-To: <20011217162535.71836.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39030.65.167.250.114.1008612692.squirrel@www.stjohnsprepschool.org> ------=_Cd)_-5O+h)FXIzZA)7CH=m1urx?bLStJ9TiqGu_:1srF9D1EzfYng3PuybDX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Try: try : mem=96M not mb > Hello: > > I have a little problem: > > I have 96mb of memory, Linux is only detecting or > reading 64mb. I added append="mem=96mb" in the > lilo.conf file; reinstalled lilo by typing lilo and > even restarted the system but the kernel is still > reading 64mb. Why is this happening? Any one? > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nylug-talk mailing list > nylug-talk@nylug.org > http://herzl.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk ------=_Cd)_-5O+h)FXIzZA)7CH=m1urx?bLStJ9TiqGu_:1srF9D1EzfYng3PuybDX Content-Type: application/octet-stream;name="" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQo= ------=_Cd)_-5O+h)FXIzZA)7CH=m1urx?bLStJ9TiqGu_:1srF9D1EzfYng3PuybDX-- From jfowler at westrope.com Mon Dec 17 18:20:43 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo In-Reply-To: <20011217162535.71836.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's mem=96M (case sensitive and loose the b) -Jeremy > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net > [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf Of jose sanchez > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:26 AM > To: kclug@kclug.org; nylug-talk@nylug.org > Subject: Lilo > > > Hello: > > I have a little problem: > > I have 96mb of memory, Linux is only detecting or > reading 64mb. I added append="mem=96mb" in the > lilo.conf file; reinstalled lilo by typing lilo and > even restarted the system but the kernel is still > reading 64mb. Why is this happening? Any one? > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > From j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 19:25:28 2001 From: j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com (jose sanchez) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011217192554.90441.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> I tried it and still doesn't work. --- Jeremy Fowler wrote: > It's mem=96M (case sensitive and loose the b) > -Jeremy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net > > [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf > Of jose sanchez > > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:26 AM > > To: kclug@kclug.org; nylug-talk@nylug.org > > Subject: Lilo > > > > > > Hello: > > > > I have a little problem: > > > > I have 96mb of memory, Linux is only detecting or > > reading 64mb. I added append="mem=96mb" in the > > lilo.conf file; reinstalled lilo by typing lilo > and > > even restarted the system but the kernel is still > > reading 64mb. Why is this happening? Any one? > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for > all of > > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > > > KC Linux Users Group -- to unsubscribe send mail > to majordomo@kclug.org > > Enter without the quotes in body of message > > > majordomo@kclug.org > Enter without the quotes in body of message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From spacey-nylug at lenin.nu Mon Dec 17 19:31:41 2001 From: spacey-nylug at lenin.nu (Peter C. Norton) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: [nylug-talk] RE: Lilo In-Reply-To: <20011217192554.90441.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20011217113204.A23513@lenin.nu> OK, can you try to increment memory past 64m in 1 mb increments and see where it breaks? I.e. can you set it to 65 mb? On Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 11:25:54AM -0800, jose sanchez wrote: > > I tried it and still doesn't work. > > > > > --- Jeremy Fowler wrote: > > It's mem=96M (case sensitive and loose the b) > > -Jeremy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net > > > [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf > > Of jose sanchez > > > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:26 AM > > > To: kclug@kclug.org; nylug-talk@nylug.org > > > Subject: Lilo > > > > > > > > > Hello: > > > > > > I have a little problem: > > > > > > I have 96mb of memory, Linux is only detecting or > > > reading 64mb. I added append="mem=96mb" in the > > > lilo.conf file; reinstalled lilo by typing lilo > > and > > > even restarted the system but the kernel is still > > > reading 64mb. Why is this happening? Any one? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for > > all of > > > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > KC Linux Users Group -- to unsubscribe send mail > > to majordomo@kclug.org > > > Enter without the quotes in body of message > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > Enter without the quotes in body of message > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nylug-talk mailing list > nylug-talk@nylug.org > http://herzl.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk -- The 5 year plan: In five years we'll make up another plan. Or just re-use this one. From hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com Mon Dec 17 19:47:05 2001 From: hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com (Duston, Hal) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Meeting reminder, returning to our normal location Message-ID: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BAE01@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> All, OK, we are back at our normal location. I am informed that it may be a little musty from the wet carpet, but when I was there briefly two weeks ago, I couldn't detect any odor. They will provide a fan in the room regardless. The next meeting of KCLUG is 6:30pm Tue. Dec. 18th, 2001 at the downtown Kansas City, MO Public Library on the 3rd floor. Directions are available at the web site http://www.kclug.org/ This meeting is theoretically an installfest. The meeting-after-the-meeting is at the NKC Denny's at 14th and Burlington. From the library go east one block to Locust, and then north to the Heart of America bridge which takes you directly to Burlington, and 14 blocks north to Denny's. Directions from the meeting to Denny's are now also available at the web site. Hal Duston From chris at datacaptech.com Mon Dec 17 19:58:04 2001 From: chris at datacaptech.com (Chris Midkiff) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Computer Position Available Message-ID: I ran across a company that is looking for a programmer/admin, in case there is anyone on the list that is interested.. They run a couple of SCO unix boxen, and a proprietary Unix based Database/programming environment called 'Progress'. Also have 15 or so Win 98 clients, and a little network to support. Looking for one person that can handle just about all 'technical' problems for the company. That would include knowledge of (or the ability/interest to learn) the Progress system. KC North of the river location. Small distribution company that has previously out-sourced all technical work. Email me off of the list, and I'll send you contact info. I'm not involved in the hiring, so don't send me a resume... Sorry if this is considered 'Off Topic'... Chris Midkiff chris@datacaptech.com From jfowler at westrope.com Mon Dec 17 20:35:32 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo In-Reply-To: <20011217192554.90441.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Reply back with your whole lilo.conf file. Also, try running `lilo -v` to see if there are any errors. How are you checking how much memory Linux sees? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net > [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf Of jose sanchez > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:26 PM > To: Jeremy Fowler > Cc: kclug@kclug.org; nylug-talk@nylug.org > Subject: RE: Lilo > > > > I tried it and still doesn't work. > > > > > --- Jeremy Fowler wrote: > > It's mem=96M (case sensitive and loose the b) > > -Jeremy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net > > > [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf > > Of jose sanchez > > > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:26 AM > > > To: kclug@kclug.org; nylug-talk@nylug.org > > > Subject: Lilo > > > > > > > > > Hello: > > > > > > I have a little problem: > > > > > > I have 96mb of memory, Linux is only detecting or > > > reading 64mb. I added append="mem=96mb" in the > > > lilo.conf file; reinstalled lilo by typing lilo > > and > > > even restarted the system but the kernel is still > > > reading 64mb. Why is this happening? Any one? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for > > all of > > > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > KC Linux Users Group -- to unsubscribe send mail > > to majordomo@kclug.org > > > Enter without the quotes in body of message > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > Enter without the quotes in body of message > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > From jfowler at westrope.com Mon Dec 17 20:51:24 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Dell Latitude and Linux Message-ID: Does anyone have a working XF86config file for a Dell Inspiron 8000 that supports both the LCD display and an external monitor Dell P991 (For when it's docked in the port replicator). I have Dell's XF86Config-4 file, but it only works for the LCD. Anyone have any experience with Linux and port replicators in general? It would be nice if Linux was able to keep track of different hardware profiles and change configurations when it detects the laptop has been docked and undocked, maybe even allow me to use the eject feature. How about modular drives? Does anyone know if it's possible to remove modular drives (Zip, CDROM, Floppy, etc...) from Linux while it's still on? I know Redhat has kudzu and it has some of those features. I need to read up on it some more to see if I can setup different profiles... Any other ideas or someone with a similar setup? From j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 21:01:19 2001 From: j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com (jose sanchez) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo.conf file (revised) Message-ID: <20011217210142.13049.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> Below is my /etc/lilo.conf file. It shows 69M. I was trying to set different value under 96M to see if it would detect more than 64M. The BIOS detects 96M. I find the total memory two different ways: 1. cat /proc/meminfo 2. free -tm Using RH 6.2, kernel 2.2.14-5.0, two 32M and two 16MB SIMMS. The system doesn't even detects 65M... When I type lilo -v I get this output: LILO version 21, Copyright 1992-1998 Werner Almesberger Reading boot sector from /dev/hda Merging with /boot/boot.b Boot image: /boot/vmlinuz-2.2.14-5.0 Added RedHat Syntax error near line 11 in file /etc/lilo.conf ##################### __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From jfowler at westrope.com Mon Dec 17 21:28:36 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo.conf file (revised) In-Reply-To: <20011217210142.13049.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Two things: The append is a per-image option that must be placed after the image=pathname line. And labels with spaces must be quoted ("") or else you get that Syntax error near line 11. Also, to make it the default image. Either change the default= option to the image label "Redhat 6.2", or use the alias= option to associate it with the label linux. Try this lilo.conf: boot=/dev/hda map=/boot/map install=/boot/boot.b prompt timeout=50 default=linux image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.14-5.0 label="RedHat 6.2" alias=linux read-only root=/dev/hda5 append="mem=96M" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net > [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf Of jose sanchez > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:02 PM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Lilo.conf file (revised) > > > > Below is my /etc/lilo.conf file. It shows 69M. I was > trying to set different value under 96M to see if it > would detect more than 64M. The BIOS detects 96M. > I find the total memory two different ways: > 1. cat /proc/meminfo > 2. free -tm > > Using RH 6.2, kernel 2.2.14-5.0, two 32M and two 16MB > SIMMS. > > The system doesn't even detects 65M... > > When I type lilo -v I get this output: > LILO version 21, Copyright 1992-1998 Werner > Almesberger > > Reading boot sector from /dev/hda > Merging with /boot/boot.b > Boot image: /boot/vmlinuz-2.2.14-5.0 > Added RedHat > Syntax error near line 11 in file /etc/lilo.conf > > ##################### > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 21:40:48 2001 From: j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com (jose sanchez) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo.conf file (revised) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011217214111.56552.qmail@web11705.mail.yahoo.com> > boot=/dev/hda > map=/boot/map > install=/boot/boot.b > prompt > timeout=50 > default=linux > > image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.14-5.0 > label=linux > read-only > root=/dev/hda5 > append="mem=96M" Ok. This solved the problem... Thanks everyone for your input and for all your help. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! 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From lowell at kc.rr.com Mon Dec 17 23:45:50 2001 From: lowell at kc.rr.com (lowell) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo In-Reply-To: <20011217162535.71836.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If no one else has said it, perhaps try append="mem=96M" that seems right iirc On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, jose sanchez wrote: > Hello: > > I have a little problem: > > I have 96mb of memory, Linux is only detecting or > reading 64mb. I added append="mem=96mb" in the > lilo.conf file; reinstalled lilo by typing lilo and > even restarted the system but the kernel is still > reading 64mb. Why is this happening? Any one? > > Thanks in advance for your help. From jegilliland at hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 19:13:55 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: lilo.conf file review Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I am editing my lilo.conf file after upgrading from Mandrake 8.0 to 8.1. Will someone who had a moment please look at my file and see if it looks OK? I have pasted it below. Thanks in advance, Eric Gilliland map=/boot/map install=/boot/boot.b vga=normal default=linux keytable=/boot/us.klt lba32 prompt timeout=300 message=/boot/message menu-scheme=wb:bw:wb:bw other=/dev/fd0 label=floppy unsafe image=/boot/vmlinuz label=Mandrake Linux 8.1 root=/dev/hda5 append=" devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi quiet" vga=788 read-only image=/boot/vmlinuz label=linux-nonfb root=/dev/hda5 append=" devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi" read-only image=/boot/vmlinuz label=failsafe root=/dev/hda5 append=" devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi failsafe" read-only other=/dev/hda1 label=Windows Me table=/dev/hda _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Tue Dec 18 19:32:03 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: lilo.conf file review In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C1F99CD.2020006@innovision.com> I am speaking from very little experience, but I just installed Mandrake 8.1 and I wonder about this snippet: other=/dev/hda1 label=Windows Me table=/dev/hda I was manually tweaking my lilo.conf and I had to remove the table="/dev/hda" line altogether to boot windows. This wasn't based on intimate knowledge of the parameter, but by copying from a know, working lilo configuration. Just keep that in mind if you have future problems. Eric Gilliland wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I am editing my lilo.conf file after upgrading from Mandrake 8.0 to > 8.1. Will someone who had a moment please look at my file and see if > it looks OK? I have pasted it below. > > Thanks in advance, > > Eric Gilliland > > > map=/boot/map > install=/boot/boot.b > vga=normal > default=linux > keytable=/boot/us.klt > lba32 > prompt > timeout=300 > message=/boot/message > menu-scheme=wb:bw:wb:bw > other=/dev/fd0 > label=floppy > unsafe > image=/boot/vmlinuz > label=Mandrake Linux 8.1 > root=/dev/hda5 > append=" devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi quiet" > vga=788 > read-only > image=/boot/vmlinuz > label=linux-nonfb > root=/dev/hda5 > append=" devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi" > read-only > image=/boot/vmlinuz > label=failsafe > root=/dev/hda5 > append=" devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi failsafe" > read-only > other=/dev/hda1 > label=Windows Me > table=/dev/hda > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Tue Dec 18 19:33:03 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: to admin Message-ID: <3C1F9A0A.7040201@innovision.com> Can we get the Reply-To header set to the mailing list? It's annoying sending/receiving two messages for every post. From hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com Tue Dec 18 19:48:42 2001 From: hdusto01 at sprintspectrum.com (Duston, Hal) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Reply-To munging reprise [Was: to admin] Message-ID: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BAE07@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Marvin, We have deliberately turned off the Reply-To header munging. The receiving two messages is caused by the replier actually sending two messages. One to you, and one to the list. The correct method of replying to the list only is to push the Reply-All button, and delete the addressees who are already on the list. And yes, I occasionally forget do to this. --- Clipped from my post the last time we had this discussion. For some advocacy see http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html and http://zseem.ids.bielsko.pl/qmail/koobera/www/proto/replyto.html and http://oswg.org/oswg-nightly/oswg/en_US.ISO_8859-1/articles/mladvice/mladvic e.html#AEN172 Look in our archives http://www.kclug.org/archives/2000/jul/ on the 4th and 5th of July under the topic of "Block Tom Margrave Please" (Hi Tom!) for some discussion we had on this topic. The Reply-to munging was a contributing factor in that incident. --- Clipped from another of my posts on this topic. http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/199712/msg00353.html Notice how this list solved it. Still it is an inconvenience either way. *sigh* Now that I have read that, I don't think either a listserv, or sendmail could solve this; however, I still wish to NOT munge the Reply-to header. Hal Marvin Bellamy [mailto:Marvin.Bellamy@innovision.com] wrote: > > Can we get the Reply-To header set to the mailing list? It's > annoying sending/receiving two messages for every post. From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Tue Dec 18 20:31:53 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Reply-To munging reprise [Was: to admin] In-Reply-To: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BAE07@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Message-ID: <20011218143206.B13848@katya> If you use mutt add a line like this to you muttrc file lists kplug kclug kulua isn linuxmanagers then you can just hit "L" to reply to the list, or "r" to reply to the sender. On Tue, Dec , at 01:49:03PM -0600, Duston, Hal wrote: > Marvin, > > We have deliberately turned off the Reply-To header munging. > > The receiving two messages is caused by the replier actually > sending two messages. One to you, and one to the list. The > correct method of replying to the list only is to push the > Reply-All button, and delete the addressees who are already > on the list. And yes, I occasionally forget do to this. > -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From rcb at kc.rr.com Wed Dec 19 00:54:37 2001 From: rcb at kc.rr.com (Bob Batson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Navigating the Archives {Was Re: Reply-To munging reprise [Was: to admin]} In-Reply-To: <3F06C9859CA7D31194ED0000D1ECC4AB131BAE07@pkcexv007.sprintspectrum.com> Message-ID: How do I see/read the archived messages to the mailing list that were posted before the last 15 messages? On the KCLUG website, I get to the archives by first selecting "Mailing list" on the home page and then selecting "archived" on the next page. I finally am able to see (and read) the latest 15 messages posted to the list. But I can't figure out how to see any of the earlier messages. Can someone tell me how? -- Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W rcb@kc.rr.com Kansas City TCS - Mystic Fire Priest USDA Zone 5 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will do exactly as it pleases. From davideng at ponyexpress.net Wed Dec 19 04:50:16 2001 From: davideng at ponyexpress.net (David P. Engvall) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL Message-ID: <3C201DFC.FB5566E9@ponyexpress.net> Mal << I don't think this kind of glib response is helpful but here is what they are saying. I was really hoping for some solid information on how a person in your position should consider the alternatives. More to follow. Dave From davideng at ponyexpress.net Wed Dec 19 04:58:16 2001 From: davideng at ponyexpress.net (David P. Engvall) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL Message-ID: <3C201FE1.B4B3205F@ponyexpress.net> Mal << Here are some more links that may shed more light on the situation. I am really hoping to receive from the kclug a persuasive argument that I could pass along to you that would make it clear that it is worthwhile to develop software using open source tools but I'm not sure I have gotten any yet. Best, Dave From davideng at ponyexpress.net Wed Dec 19 05:47:17 2001 From: davideng at ponyexpress.net (David P. Engvall) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL Message-ID: <3C202B59.DBC5C516@ponyexpress.net> Mal << Here is another response that I am not sure is useful but does contain another pointer to relevant information. Dave From davideng at ponyexpress.net Wed Dec 19 05:51:04 2001 From: davideng at ponyexpress.net (David P. Engvall) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL Message-ID: <3C202C41.152E48E@ponyexpress.net> Mal << Now this one seems to get to the point if a little bit curdely. Take Care, Dave From zscoundrel at kc.rr.com Wed Dec 19 05:51:20 2001 From: zscoundrel at kc.rr.com (zscoundrel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Lilo In-Reply-To: <20011217192554.90441.qmail@web11707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C202B72.2070201@kc.rr.com> Try mem=96000k. I had some funky things happen when I try to use 'M' for megabytes, but I haven't been able to reproduce it again since so I can figure out why. Also, I use the amount that is displayed during the hardware boot process. If it says "98,304kb ok" that is the value I use. "mem=98306k" jose sanchez wrote: >I tried it and still doesn't work. > > > > >--- Jeremy Fowler wrote: > >>It's mem=96M (case sensitive and loose the b) >>-Jeremy >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net >>>[mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf >>> >>Of jose sanchez >> >>>Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:26 AM >>>To: kclug@kclug.org; nylug-talk@nylug.org >>>Subject: Lilo >>> >>> >>>Hello: >>> >>>I have a little problem: >>> >>>I have 96mb of memory, Linux is only detecting or >>>reading 64mb. I added append="mem=96mb" in the >>>lilo.conf file; reinstalled lilo by typing lilo >>> >>and >> >>>even restarted the system but the kernel is still >>>reading 64mb. Why is this happening? Any one? >>> >>>Thanks in advance for your help. >>> >>> >>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for >>> >>all of >> >>>your unique holiday gifts! Buy at >>> >>http://shopping.yahoo.com >> >>>or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com >>> >>> >>>KC Linux Users Group -- to unsubscribe send mail >>> >>to majordomo@kclug.org >> >>>Enter without the quotes in body of message >>> >> >> >>majordomo@kclug.org >>Enter without the quotes in body of message >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of >your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com >or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > -- At 20, I was liberal, because I had nothing to lose and so much to gain. by 40, I was conservative, because I had so much to lose and so little to gain. Isn't it amazing what 20 years of hard work and experience will do for ones' point of view? From davideng at ponyexpress.net Wed Dec 19 05:57:13 2001 From: davideng at ponyexpress.net (David P. Engvall) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL Message-ID: <3C202DB0.35839A39@ponyexpress.net> Mal << zscoundrel suggests some interesting methods of turning programming skill into profit. See what you think. OK... I've beaten this thread to a shred. I'll stop now. Dave From lists at kc.rr.com Wed Dec 19 13:26:01 2001 From: lists at kc.rr.com (Monty J. Harder) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL] In-Reply-To: <3C201FE1.B4B3205F@ponyexpress.net> Message-ID: <002901c188904581a41@Dexter> "David P. Engvall" wrote: > I am really hoping to receive from the kclug a persuasive argument > that I could pass along to you that would make it clear that it is worthwhile > to develop software using open source tools but I'm not sure I have gotten > any yet. But that's not what you asked for. You mentioned a specific misconception: "Programs written for Linux must be GPL'ed". And that has been refuted quite well. From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 19 14:44:01 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Navigating the Archives {Was Re: Reply-To munging reprise [Was:to admin]} Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06557E@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> It appears that you need to enter them with a manual string. I noticed yesterday that it didn't have the same structure as before. So you need to enter a string like this: http://www.kclug.org/archives/2001/jul/ It appears to always be a 3 char month. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Batson [mailto:rcb@kc.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:56 PM > To: Duston, Hal; kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Navigating the Archives {Was Re: Reply-To munging reprise > [Was:to admin]} > > > How do I see/read the archived messages to the mailing list that were > posted before the last 15 messages? > > On the KCLUG website, I get to the archives by first selecting > "Mailing list" on the home page and then selecting "archived" on the > next page. I finally am able to see (and read) the latest 15 messages > posted to the list. But I can't figure out how to see any of the > earlier messages. Can someone tell me how? > > -- > > Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W > rcb@kc.rr.com Kansas City > TCS - Mystic Fire Priest USDA Zone 5 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus > will do exactly as it pleases. > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 19 14:51:51 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06557F@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Seasons Greetings all, I just got @home installed yesterday. They would install to my "lenix" box. The technician has a copy of Linux but hasn't installed it on any of his machines yet. Anyway I digress. I powered up my laptop, and booted Windoze, dusted off the desktop icons and let them install it on that. After they left, I did a little tweaking and got my laptop and my home server to connect via static IP and routing table entries. I could not make it work with DHCP. I remember that this was a topic some time back, but don't have the patience to scan through the archives on-line. Could someone tell me again how they did it? I mean it is working now and I get speeds ranging from 66kb to 200kb with the static routes, so it is not a major issue. Thanks in advance, Brian Densmore Associate CompuTech Business Solutions, Inc. http://www.ctbsonline.com/ (816) 880-0988 x215 From chuckx at cold-sun.com Wed Dec 19 15:24:34 2001 From: chuckx at cold-sun.com (Charles K. Lee II) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06557F@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <20011219152923.GA9126@kc.rr.com> On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 08:47:49AM -0600, Brian Densmore wrote: > After they left, I did a little tweaking and got my laptop and > my home server to connect via static IP and routing table entries. I > could not make it work with DHCP. I'm not familiar with the way @Home has their network setup, but I do remember somebody mentioning that you have to give a specific hostname when registering with their DHCP server. For example, if you use dhcpcd, this it the command you would use: dhcpcd-2.2.x -h "foo" eth0 As far as I know, the hostname should have been provided to you by @Home. If I'm completely off the mark, there should be an @Home customer on the list who can correct me. Also, are you using the IP that was originally given to your laptop as the static IP on your server? Or did you just make one up? Just curious. -- - chuckx | Charles K. Lee II - - chuckx@cold-sun.com - - http://www.cold-sun.com - -- From chuckx at cold-sun.com Wed Dec 19 15:31:19 2001 From: chuckx at cold-sun.com (Charles K. Lee II) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: GnuPG Signature Test Message-ID: <20011219153609.GA9208@kc.rr.com> This is a GnuPG signed message. I'm using Mutt, which has PGP/GnuPG support built in to it. Mutt uses the PGP/MIME format to include the signature. I was just wondering how other email clients handle these messages. I know Outlook Express doesn't handle them gracefully. You just end up with two randomly named attatchments, one for the actual message and one for the signatue. Mutt handles PGP/MIME beautifully. It will automatically try to verify the signature using the public keys in your keyring. Also, if a public key is in a message, you can automatically add the key to your keyring. Other mail clients, I don't know about. So if you all are using something else (ie. Netscape, Kmail, Balsa, Evolution, Eudora, etc.), I'm curious as to how your client handles this message. -- - chuckx | Charles K. Lee II - - chuckx@cold-sun.com - - http://www.cold-sun.com - -- From jared at dctkc.com Wed Dec 19 15:32:52 2001 From: jared at dctkc.com (DCT Jared Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: Software Developed Under GPL In-Reply-To: <3C1D1FAF.A29E339F@ponyexpress.net> Message-ID: <004301c188a2df129d0c01a8c0@graphics> Perhaps the enduringly persuasive argument for developing under the GPL is NOT in the array of robust, low-cost tools available to the developer, but in the way he can use those tools to both make a profit on his own development AND easily give it away for free to those people who are unable to afford the package. Thus charity becomes a factor built in to the structure of the license, instead of as an exception to the license. Granted, this 'persuasive argument' is persuasive only to people who agree that charity is a self-evident justification for some actions. The way Microsoft is designed, a person DE JURE becomes a criminal if he runs their software in a manner which is common, yet unlicensed. This means Microsoft resorts IN FIRST APPEAL to force and intimidation, the basest purpose of law, to enforce their license. This means they must specifically make an exception for every single charitable cause they 'give' software to. You see, law is intended to help people improve their current lot; not simply to prohibit people from deproving. The GPL is designed under the much kinder purpose of law, which is more trust-based, yet certainly worth the extra effort. Notice that still, a GPL developer can rely IN SECOND APPEAL on the force-based legal system in the rare case of a competitor actually using his own code to compete with his own market. As long as the GPL goes substantially unchallenged in court, which is where I believe we are still today more than a decade after it was first drafted, this continues to be the case; the longer this happens, the more depth there will be to the court case which finally does test the trust-based nature of the GPL, because a precedent of trust is being built by time. One noticeable side effect of this setting is that a GPL developer can more easily rely on word-of-mouth advertising than a Microsoft-oriented developer. Given a single articulate web site on the Internet, as long as his code is robust and accomplishes the task elegantly, the program will be specifically sought after by customers, since there will always be customers who "do research" (ie search Google, Freshmeat, etc) before purchasing. On the other hand, Microsoft is targeting different customers; the most docile, of users, and is compelled by the nature of their license to fund a large marketing campaign in order to attract new users. This is in part because they are specifically targeting people who are agreeing to "go to jail" for license infractions; I say to Microsoft if that's the kind of customers you want, you can have them, as for me, I prefer to trust my customers more. Thus Microsoft's great vestment in the BSA, which recently fined a company in Lenexa several hundred thousand dollars for having unlicensed copies of ordinary software packages, something which exists in as much as 50 percent of all American businesses. In short, appealing to the common parable "You can give a man a fish, or teach a man to fish," I would say that Microsoft gives a man a fish, and GPL teaches a man to fish. Some people, who simply want a fish, head for the Microsoft package. If this is your intended audience, then perhaps Microsoft tools are better for your needs after all. When it's all said and done, you'll have a pile of money, and more disgruntled customers than you can count. As for me and my code, I'd rather see how it can stand on its own, against the wind of customers who demand more of me, yet receive with sincerer gratitude. Ain't got no problem charging a fair price for this. Even Jesus paid taxes. -Jared From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 19 15:33:54 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065580@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > From: Charles K. Lee II [mailto:chuckx@cold-sun.com] > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 08:47:49AM -0600, Brian Densmore wrote: > > After they left, I did a little tweaking and got my laptop and > > my home server to connect via static IP and routing table entries. I > > could not make it work with DHCP. > > I'm not familiar with the way @Home has their network setup, but I do > remember somebody mentioning that you have to give a specific > hostname when > registering with their DHCP server. For example, if you use > dhcpcd, this it > the command you would use: > > dhcpcd-2.2.x -h "foo" eth0 > > As far as I know, the hostname should have been provided to > you by @Home. yes I set my hostname to what they gave me. I have used the GUI tools in Mandrake to configure this, so I am not sure what they are doing. I wanted to try the idiot-proof way before getting down in the trenches. > > Also, are you using the IP that was originally given to your > laptop as the > static IP on your server? Or did you just make one up? Just curious. Yes they gave me a static IP (WOO-HOO!). The paper lists my IP, the cable modem's ip the Gateway, DNS, the netmask, and one other (forget). Very cool, it was simple setting it up, except for DHCP. Here's the funny part. The Windoze side, I had to tweak after they left because it lost the proxy address, and I had to reconfigure it to just access the Internet! Ha! Thanks, Brian From j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com Wed Dec 19 15:50:29 2001 From: j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com (jose sanchez) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: 30 GB HD on P 133MHz Message-ID: <20011219155048.54454.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com> Ok. Here I go again with my problems. I need help on this one. * BIOS: AMI from August 1996. I bought a 30G DiamondMax Maxtor HD. It came with an utility disk that installs EZ-BIOS. Ok... I ran the utility disk and installed EZ-BIOS. Now, I am trying to install RH 6.2. When the installation starts or when the kernel starts to extract itself (when is detecting the HD, Mem, etc..) it finds the HD and it says something similar to: hda maxtor 30708MB. This means it found or knows that the box has a "big" HD, right? When I get to make the partitions with either ddruid or fdisk it's only detecting 8.4GB. How can I get Linux to detect the whole 30G on this HD. Note: I also booted with a Win98 boot disk and ran fdisk and tried making a FAT partition and it only detects 2.4G. I know FAT has some limitations... I also tried partitioning the drive with Partition Magic; I get an error saying "unable to initialize engine" and crashes after that. I'll find more info about this error on their website. Please HELP! And thanks in advance for your support. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From gedascher at multiservice.com Wed Dec 19 15:51:29 2001 From: gedascher at multiservice.com (Gene Dascher) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065580@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: Yeah, it's great having a static IP... for now. I don't know what Comcast is going to do when they move to their own internal system from @Home's. I'm still hoping that we keep the same IPs we have now, but I'm not sure if they will be transferred from @Home to Comcast. In any event, I really want to keep my static IP, but I'm a bit afraid it will go away. Gene > Yes they gave me a static IP (WOO-HOO!). The paper lists my IP, the > cable modem's ip the Gateway, DNS, the netmask, and one other (forget). From oktay at optonline.net Wed Dec 19 15:55:09 2001 From: oktay at optonline.net (Oktay Altunergil) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz In-Reply-To: <20011219155048.54454.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002f01c188a509fc7b0401a8c0@Volkswagen> Although I thought Linux should have no problem detecting and using it, I recommend highly against using EZ-BIOS. It will mess up your hard disk at some point or another. Instead I would recommend upgrading your BIOS, if it's flashable. Oktay ----- Original Message ----- From: "jose sanchez" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:50 AM Subject: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz > Ok. Here I go again with my problems. I need help on > this one. > > * BIOS: AMI from August 1996. > > I bought a 30G DiamondMax Maxtor HD. It came with an > utility disk that installs EZ-BIOS. > > Ok... I ran the utility disk and installed EZ-BIOS. > Now, I am trying to install RH 6.2. When the > installation starts or when the kernel starts to > extract itself (when is detecting the HD, Mem, etc..) > it finds the HD and it says something similar to: hda > maxtor 30708MB. This means it found or knows that the > box has a "big" HD, right? > > When I get to make the partitions with either ddruid > or fdisk it's only detecting 8.4GB. How can I get > Linux to detect the whole 30G on this HD. > > Note: > I also booted with a Win98 boot disk and ran fdisk and > tried making a FAT partition and it only detects 2.4G. > I know FAT has some limitations... I also tried > partitioning the drive with Partition Magic; I get an > error saying "unable to initialize engine" and crashes > after that. I'll find more info about this error on > their website. > > Please HELP! And thanks in advance for your support. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nylug-talk mailing list > nylug-talk@nylug.org > http://herzl.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk From chuckx at cold-sun.com Wed Dec 19 16:09:47 2001 From: chuckx at cold-sun.com (Charles K. Lee II) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065580@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <20011219161433.GA9274@kc.rr.com> On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 09:29:52AM -0600, Brian Densmore wrote: > Yes they gave me a static IP (WOO-HOO!). The paper lists my IP, the > cable modem's ip the Gateway, DNS, the netmask, and one other (forget). > Very cool, it was simple setting it up, except for DHCP. If they're giving out static IPs, why would you need to use DHCP in the first place? -- - chuckx | Charles K. Lee II - - chuckx@cold-sun.com - - http://www.cold-sun.com - -- From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 19 16:12:37 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065582@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> That was going to be my recommendation too. I would try to get the BIOS to detect the HD without the EZ-BIOS. But if that fails, and you are only going to run Linux on it, Linux will still detect the HD, it doesn't use the BIOS. You might try this before upgrading the BIOS. Put that would be the next logical step. EZ-BIOS is a piece of crap written to deal with stupid Windoze limitations! It also slows down your HD. $.02, Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Oktay Altunergil [mailto:oktay@optonline.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:54 AM > To: nylug-talk@nylug.org; kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Re: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz > > > Although I thought Linux should have no problem detecting and > using it, I > recommend highly against using EZ-BIOS. It will mess up your > hard disk at > some point or another. Instead I would recommend upgrading > your BIOS, if > it's flashable. > > Oktay > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jose sanchez" > To: ; > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:50 AM > Subject: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz > > > > Ok. Here I go again with my problems. I need help on > > this one. > > > > * BIOS: AMI from August 1996. > > > > I bought a 30G DiamondMax Maxtor HD. It came with an > > utility disk that installs EZ-BIOS. > > > > Ok... I ran the utility disk and installed EZ-BIOS. > > Now, I am trying to install RH 6.2. When the > > installation starts or when the kernel starts to > > extract itself (when is detecting the HD, Mem, etc..) > > it finds the HD and it says something similar to: hda > > maxtor 30708MB. This means it found or knows that the > > box has a "big" HD, right? > > > > When I get to make the partitions with either ddruid > > or fdisk it's only detecting 8.4GB. How can I get > > Linux to detect the whole 30G on this HD. > > > > Note: > > I also booted with a Win98 boot disk and ran fdisk and > > tried making a FAT partition and it only detects 2.4G. > > I know FAT has some limitations... I also tried > > partitioning the drive with Partition Magic; I get an > > error saying "unable to initialize engine" and crashes > > after that. I'll find more info about this error on > > their website. > > > > Please HELP! And thanks in advance for your support. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nylug-talk mailing list > > nylug-talk@nylug.org > > http://herzl.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com Wed Dec 19 16:26:48 2001 From: j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com (jose sanchez) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065582@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <20011219162710.15809.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> I uninstalled EZ-BIOS. Tried installing RH and now RH can't find the HD to make the partitions. It found a hda but when trying to make partitions an error occurs: No drive specified... It's the only drive in this box. Now what? --- Brian Densmore wrote: > That was going to be my recommendation too. I would > try to get the BIOS > to detect the HD without the EZ-BIOS. But if that > fails, and you are > only going to run Linux on it, Linux will still > detect the HD, it > doesn't use the BIOS. You might try this before > upgrading the BIOS. Put > that would be the next logical step. EZ-BIOS is a > piece of crap written > to deal with stupid Windoze limitations! It also > slows down your HD. > > $.02, > Brian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Oktay Altunergil > [mailto:oktay@optonline.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:54 AM > > To: nylug-talk@nylug.org; kclug@kclug.org > > Subject: Re: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz > > > > > > Although I thought Linux should have no problem > detecting and > > using it, I > > recommend highly against using EZ-BIOS. It will > mess up your > > hard disk at > > some point or another. Instead I would recommend > upgrading > > your BIOS, if > > it's flashable. > > > > Oktay > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jose sanchez" > > To: ; > > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:50 AM > > Subject: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz > > > > > > > Ok. Here I go again with my problems. I need > help on > > > this one. > > > > > > * BIOS: AMI from August 1996. > > > > > > I bought a 30G DiamondMax Maxtor HD. It came > with an > > > utility disk that installs EZ-BIOS. > > > > > > Ok... I ran the utility disk and installed > EZ-BIOS. > > > Now, I am trying to install RH 6.2. When the > > > installation starts or when the kernel starts to > > > extract itself (when is detecting the HD, Mem, > etc..) > > > it finds the HD and it says something similar > to: hda > > > maxtor 30708MB. This means it found or knows > that the > > > box has a "big" HD, right? > > > > > > When I get to make the partitions with either > ddruid > > > or fdisk it's only detecting 8.4GB. How can I > get > > > Linux to detect the whole 30G on this HD. > > > > > > Note: > > > I also booted with a Win98 boot disk and ran > fdisk and > > > tried making a FAT partition and it only detects > 2.4G. > > > I know FAT has some limitations... I also tried > > > partitioning the drive with Partition Magic; I > get an > > > error saying "unable to initialize engine" and > crashes > > > after that. I'll find more info about this error > on > > > their website. > > > > > > Please HELP! And thanks in advance for your > support. > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions > for all of > > > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nylug-talk mailing list > > > nylug-talk@nylug.org > > > > http://herzl.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk > > > > > > > > KC Linux Users Group -- to unsubscribe send mail > to > > majordomo@kclug.org > > Enter without the quotes in body of message > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > Enter without the quotes in body of message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From lfeagan at ku.edu Wed Dec 19 16:40:43 2001 From: lfeagan at ku.edu (Lance Feagan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: [nylug-talk] 30 GB HD on P 133MHz In-Reply-To: <20011219162710.15809.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If all else fails, try this ;-) http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto/cleandrive1.html -Lance From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 19 17:15:04 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: 30 GB HD on P 133MHz In-Reply-To: <20011219155048.54454.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004c01c188b07960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jose sanchez" > * BIOS: AMI from August 1996. > I bought a 30G DiamondMax Maxtor HD. It came with an > utility disk that installs EZ-BIOS. If you can't get the Firmware BIOS to recognise the drive properly you can either try flashing the BIOS to a newer version, or replace the BIOS. (Which is a obtuse way of telling you to give up and replace the Motherboard and buy a $50 processor and some RAM while you're at it. Oh yeah, and you'll need a new case 'cause it'll be an ATX motherboard.) "EZ-BIOS" is a way to guarantee that you will eventually loose all the data on the drive, because any serious boot error will corrupt the "driver" it installs and you are HOSED. From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 19 17:18:09 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP In-Reply-To: <20011219161433.GA9274@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <005701c188b126eb6b07960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles K. Lee II" > If they're giving out static IPs, why would you need to use DHCP in the > first place? DHCP doesn't just handle IP assignment, it also allows centralised management and update of Gateway and DNS settings, as well as other OS dependent items. Just posting a text update usually misses a lot of Admins, let alone regular users, so you need to be able to do a direct update at least on a reboot. From rossiter at discoverynet.com Wed Dec 19 20:17:47 2001 From: rossiter at discoverynet.com (Eric Rossiter) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06557F@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <3C20F613.BB46D876@discoverynet.com> Brian Densmore wrote: > > Seasons Greetings all, > > Could someone tell me again how they did it? Hello fellow tux-ites, To my knowledge Comcast@Home authenticates by machine name. I was told there are no static IP's, however, they must have machine names mapped to IP's somewhere, because I have always gotten the same IP, no matter what, Win or Lin, in over a year. So, that said, this is how I make it work. Set the hostname to whatever Comcast gave you, i.e., aa######-a (cb987654-a, for example.) I don't set any other parameters, DNS, etc. I do enable DHCP for eth0. You need to hack /sbin/ifup to make this work also. In RH 6.x, you need to change the following line in /sbin/ifup if /sbin/pump -i $DEVICE; then Change to: if /sbin/pump -i $DEVICE -h aa######-a; then Where: aa######-a = your hostname (cb987654-a, for example.) /sbin/ifup changed alot in RH 7.x and I haven't figured out the hack for that yet. In 7.x eth0 init fails @ boot up, but after logging in I issue "/sbin/pump -h aa######-a -i eth0" and I authenticate to @Home fine, and get the same IP every time. If anyone figures out the hack for /sbin/ifup in RH 7.x, PLEASE let me know, as logging into root and using pump every time I boot into Linux gets old. HTH & TIA, Eric From gedascher at multiservice.com Wed Dec 19 20:37:12 2001 From: gedascher at multiservice.com (Gene Dascher) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP In-Reply-To: <3C20F613.BB46D876@discoverynet.com> Message-ID: When the installer came in to set me up, I told him I was running Linux. He plugged in the modem, hooked it up to the cable line, had me sign the paperwork, showed me the information (IP Address, hostname, etc.) and walked out. They would not touch it. It was probably the easiest install for him that day. Later, Gene > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net > [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf Of Eric Rossiter > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:18 PM > To: Brian Densmore > Cc: KCLUG (E-mail) > Subject: Re: @Home and DHCP > > Hello fellow tux-ites, > > To my knowledge Comcast@Home authenticates by machine name. I was told > there are no static IP's, however, they must have machine names mapped > to IP's somewhere, because I have always gotten the same IP, no matter > what, Win or Lin, in over a year. From cstein at newtek.com Wed Dec 19 20:47:36 2001 From: cstein at newtek.com (Charles Steinkuehler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP In-Reply-To: <3C20F613.BB46D876@discoverynet.com> Message-ID: <019601c188ceb3f3a80d011c0a@csteinathlon> > /sbin/ifup changed alot in RH 7.x and I haven't figured out the hack for > that yet. In 7.x eth0 init fails @ boot up, but after logging in I > issue "/sbin/pump -h aa######-a -i eth0" and I authenticate to @Home > fine, and get the same IP every time. If anyone figures out the hack > for /sbin/ifup in RH 7.x, PLEASE let me know, as logging into root and > using pump every time I boot into Linux gets old. A quick look at the RH7.2 ifup script indicates you can set the DHCP_HOSTNAME variable in the interface config file (probably /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0), and the information will be passed to pump or dhcpcd automatically. Charles Steinkuehler charles@steinkuehler.net From j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com Wed Dec 19 20:54:36 2001 From: j_r_sanchez at yahoo.com (jose sanchez) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: 30 GB HD on P 133MHz In-Reply-To: <004c01c188b07960c0a@uhc.com> Message-ID: <20011219205509.63382.qmail@web11706.mail.yahoo.com> Guys: I have solved the problem. After two days of troubleshooting, researching, etc... Here's how I solved the problem: When I set the jumpers to Master Device, the system hanged during boot. According to the documentation that came with the HD, I had to set two jumpers (j50 & j46). This was supposed to work. It never did. This configuration made Linux to think that there was only 8.4G. But, since linux doesn't use the BIOS to boot, I set the jumpers back to it's original settings. Set the BIOS to user define NOT auto (Very Important!) with the following values: 1024 cyl, 16 h, 63 sec. This time the system didn't hang. I proceeded with RH installation. This time the entire 30GB existed. Partitioned the HD and installed RH 6.2 smoothly. This was kind of weird but it worked. I would like to thanks everyone who responded to the email. Thanx... Linux Rocks! --- Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jose sanchez" > > > * BIOS: AMI from August 1996. > > > I bought a 30G DiamondMax Maxtor HD. It came with > an > > utility disk that installs EZ-BIOS. > > If you can't get the Firmware BIOS to recognise the > drive properly you can > either try flashing the BIOS to a newer version, or > replace the BIOS. > (Which is a obtuse way of telling you to give up and > replace the Motherboard > and buy a $50 processor and some RAM while you're at > it. Oh yeah, and > you'll need a new case 'cause it'll be an ATX > motherboard.) > > "EZ-BIOS" is a way to guarantee that you will > eventually loose all the data > on the drive, because any serious boot error will > corrupt the "driver" it > installs and you are HOSED. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From dave at iemco.com Wed Dec 19 21:42:58 2001 From: dave at iemco.com (KUCHARSKI, DAVID R.) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP In-Reply-To: <3C20F613.BB46D876@discoverynet.com> Message-ID: <3C2109A9.E7B08E5@iemco.com> My fix for the comcast@home dhcp situation was to use a p75 computer that I found in the trash, add two $5 network cards and a downloaded copy of COYOTE LINUX and build a $10.00 router/firewall. eth0 is set to the outside connection from comcast with their info and DHCP enabled and eth1 is set for an internal network where all of the boxes in the house have fixed IP.The network cards and switches inside the house were 10/100 but for the firewall/router all you need is a pair of old 10 mb/s cards because that is what the modem puts out . The COYOTE LINUX download had a really easy set up.It functions well and and fits on a floppy, so concievably you could get any old box even one with the HD removed. Only thing is that COMCAST made me turn off the telnet server, so I had to hook up a monitor and keyboard for setting up and changing anything. But it did take them a month or so to catch the telnet serever,so you could get it set up headless and then turn off the login features. it was a cheap easy fix! plus it gives me six places within the house that have a decent internet connection! Eric Rossiter wrote: > > Brian Densmore wrote: > > > > Seasons Greetings all, > > > > Could someone tell me again how they did it? > > Hello fellow tux-ites, > > To my knowledge Comcast@Home authenticates by machine name. I was told > there are no static IP's, however, they must have machine names mapped > to IP's somewhere, because I have always gotten the same IP, no matter > what, Win or Lin, in over a year. > > So, that said, this is how I make it work. Set the hostname to whatever > Comcast gave you, i.e., aa######-a (cb987654-a, for example.) I don't > set any other parameters, DNS, etc. I do enable DHCP for eth0. > > You need to hack /sbin/ifup to make this work also. > > In RH 6.x, you need to change the following line in /sbin/ifup > > if /sbin/pump -i $DEVICE; then > > Change to: > > if /sbin/pump -i $DEVICE -h aa######-a; then > > Where: aa######-a = your hostname (cb987654-a, for example.) > > /sbin/ifup changed alot in RH 7.x and I haven't figured out the hack for > that yet. In 7.x eth0 init fails @ boot up, but after logging in I > issue "/sbin/pump -h aa######-a -i eth0" and I authenticate to @Home > fine, and get the same IP every time. If anyone figures out the hack > for /sbin/ifup in RH 7.x, PLEASE let me know, as logging into root and > using pump every time I boot into Linux gets old. > > HTH & TIA, > Eric > From fishie411 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 19 23:50:45 2001 From: fishie411 at yahoo.com (josh Herr) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: 30 GB HD on P 133MHz In-Reply-To: <004c01c188b07960c0a@uhc.com> Message-ID: <20011219235117.98160.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Another option is that you could get a promise controller to run the 30gb hd. It would also let you use it at 100 mbps instead of the 16 that you are getting off the internal ide. The one I would recomend is the promise fasttrack 100 it retails for about $100 and is available almost anywhere. Here is a link to their web page... http://support.promise.com/Linux/Default.htm Ps it works on more dist than listed. if you want to know about a specefic one just ask me I have run it on quite a few. Hope this helps, Josh. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From hutchins at opus1.com Thu Dec 20 04:01:26 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:49 2004 Subject: nylug Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9188@CAVERN> How come nylug is cross-posting to our list if they won't accept replies? From rmeeker at kc.rr.com Thu Dec 20 04:02:31 2001 From: rmeeker at kc.rr.com (Richard Meeker) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: 30 GB HD on P 133MHz In-Reply-To: <20011219235117.98160.qmail@web13908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Only one problem. . . There is really no point in putting a 100 MHz Promise Tech controller on a system board with a P-133 running on a 66 Mhz FSB. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf Of josh Herr Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:51 PM To: kclug@kclug.org; nylug-talk@nylug.org Subject: Re: 30 GB HD on P 133MHz Another option is that you could get a promise controller to run the 30gb hd. It would also let you use it at 100 mbps instead of the 16 that you are getting off the internal ide. The one I would recomend is the promise fasttrack 100 it retails for about $100 and is available almost anywhere. Here is a link to their web page... http://support.promise.com/Linux/Default.htm Ps it works on more dist than listed. if you want to know about a specefic one just ask me I have run it on quite a few. Hope this helps, Josh. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From hutchins at opus1.com Thu Dec 20 04:04:13 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9189@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Gene Dascher [mailto:gedascher@multiservice.com] > When the installer came in to set me up, I told him I was > running Linux. He > plugged in the modem, hooked it up to the cable line, had me sign the > paperwork, showed me the information (IP Address, hostname, > etc.) and walked > out. They would not touch it. It was probably the easiest > install for him that day. That's exactly how I would want it done myself. I wouldn't want to pay $100 for someone with training I hadn't reviewed to fook with my system. From dcarter at datarecall.net Thu Dec 20 15:53:01 2001 From: dcarter at datarecall.net (David Carter) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Can I use Linux to run DOS programs? Message-ID: <009e01c1896e0d5fd00501a8c0@davidsdell8200> I just joined the kclug e-mail list last night - this is my first post. I want to use Linux as my main OS on my home computer. I've been using OS/2 Warp 3 since Sep 1993 and it ran DOS programs well. Until my wife bought a new Dell mega-machine mid-Nov with Windows ME on it, I've been happily insulated from the bugs in Windows OS's. After a month of suffering WinME, which I am told is the worst OS Microsoft has ever released, I want to use Linux, alone. I may have to set up for dual boot to run Windows for some apps, but would prefer to boot Windows as infrequently as possible, to avoid further pain and waste of time that inevitably occurs. I have 3 old DOS programs that I want to continue using: A USAF flight planning program, a Navy sunrise-sunset/moonrise-moonset program, and WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS. - Does Linux "emulate" DOS? (in some manner analogous to what OS/2 and Windows do?) - If it does, after I install Linux OS and get the system where it is functional (e.g., will connect to internet and do e-mail), what steps would I then take to copy the program files for the two military programs and "install" WordPerfect (using the install Wizard)? David Carter dcarter@datarecall.net From gerald at ethereal.com Thu Dec 20 16:26:03 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Can I use Linux to run DOS programs? In-Reply-To: <009e01c1896e0d5fd00501a8c0@davidsdell8200> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, David Carter wrote: > I have 3 old DOS programs that I want to continue using: A USAF flight planning program, a Navy sunrise-sunset/moonrise-moonset program, and WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS. > - Does Linux "emulate" DOS? (in some manner analogous to what OS/2 and Windows do?) DOSEMU (http://www.dosemu.org) might do what you want. As the name implies, it's a DOS emulator for Linux. Raw binaries are available on the DOSEMU site, and rpmfind.net indicates that pre-built packages are available for RPM-inclined distributions. The last time I used DOSEMU I tried to get it to run a 3Com unpack-the-driver-to-diskette installer. It didn't work. I'm not sure if it was a deficiency of DOSEMU, or because I was using FreeDOS (http://www.freedos.org) instead of MS-DOS. BTW, have you looked at native Linux alternatives to the programs you want to run? Many word processing applications are available (including WordPerfect itself). A couple of quick searches on Freshmeat for "moon" and "flight" show several text and GUI tools that may also fit your needs. > - If it does, after I install Linux OS and get the system where it is functional (e.g., will connect to internet and do e-mail), what steps would I then take to copy the program files for the two military programs and "install" WordPerfect (using the install Wizard)? > > David Carter > dcarter@datarecall.net > > From hutchins at opus1.com Thu Dec 20 16:31:37 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Can I use Linux to run DOS programs? In-Reply-To: <009e01c1896e0d5fd00501a8c0@davidsdell8200> Message-ID: <000e01c189737960c0a@uhc.com> David, Please send only Plain Text messages to the mailing list. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Carter > I've been using OS/2 Warp 3 since Sep 1993 and it ran > DOS programs well. Until my wife bought a new Dell > mega-machine mid-Nov with Windows ME on it, I've > been happily insulated from the bugs in Windows OS's. First, you should know that OS/2 is just an early version of Windows NT, developed by Microsoft in conjunction with IBM. You might find that NT4 or W2K would be a good system if you needed MS compatibility. A lot of progress has been made with personal computers since OS/2 made the scene. > I have 3 old DOS programs that I want to continue using: > A USAF flight planning program, a Navy sunrise-sunset/moonrise-moonset > program, and WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS. You may be able to find native Linux equivalents of the first two, and Word Perfect has Linux compatible versions available. Linux doesn't have any inherent emulation of DOS, but there are sevaral DOS emulators available. Linux itself is a mosaic built by many different contributors, and while some of the distributions give the impression of a coordinated package, that's an illusion. I would suggest doing some research in the HOWTO's at www.linuxdoc.org and looking through www.freshmeat.net to see what emulators and other software is available. Good luck, and don't forget to turn off that HTML mail! From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Thu Dec 20 16:41:22 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Can I use Linux to run DOS programs? Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065584@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Speaking of plain text. Here's the latest, Windoze Explorer 6 checks the mime type header of files, but doesn't enforce the execution of them. Example: Someone sends you nastyvirus.exe with a MIME type of .jpg. Outlook says oh this is an attachment, let's pass it to Explorer. Explorer says, oh it's a jpg file, it's ok to run the application for jpgs. Explorer passes nastyvirus.exe to the OS, and Windoze says cool a .exe program let's run it. (see: CERT Advisory CA-2001-36) Don't you love these geniuses @ M$! Another important reason for Windoze users to send text mail only. ROFL, Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins [mailto:hutchins@opus1.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:32 AM > To: David Carter; kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Re: Can I use Linux to run DOS programs? > > > David, > > Please send only Plain Text messages to the mailing list. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Carter > > > I've been using OS/2 Warp 3 since Sep 1993 and it ran > > DOS programs well. Until my wife bought a new Dell > > mega-machine mid-Nov with Windows ME on it, I've > > been happily insulated from the bugs in Windows OS's. > > First, you should know that OS/2 is just an early version of > Windows NT, > developed by Microsoft in conjunction with IBM. You might > find that NT4 or > W2K would be a good system if you needed MS compatibility. A lot of > progress has been made with personal computers since OS/2 > made the scene. > > > I have 3 old DOS programs that I want to continue using: > > A USAF flight planning program, a Navy > sunrise-sunset/moonrise-moonset > > program, and WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS. > > You may be able to find native Linux equivalents of the first > two, and Word > Perfect has Linux compatible versions available. Linux > doesn't have any > inherent emulation of DOS, but there are sevaral DOS > emulators available. > Linux itself is a mosaic built by many different > contributors, and while > some of the distributions give the impression of a > coordinated package, > that's an illusion. I would suggest doing some research in > the HOWTO's at > www.linuxdoc.org and looking through www.freshmeat.net to see > what emulators > and other software is available. > > Good luck, and don't forget to turn off that HTML mail! > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Thu Dec 20 16:46:41 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: initrd Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A52@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Important safety tip. Do not use Mandrake Update to update the kernel via RPM! Anyone ever restored the initrd.img file? Good thing I have multiple kernels to boot. Took some major tweaking, but I'm back up with my 2.4.16 kernel. The 2.4.3 kernel is wiped, the 2.4.8 (update kernel) is toast and isn't compiling either, and the 2.2.19 kernel panics and dies may always have, first time trying it). Am I having fun or what? Thanks, Brian Densmore Associate mailto:densmoreb@ctbsonline.com CompuTech Business Solutions, Inc. http://www.ctbsonline.com/ (816) 880-0988 x215 From bradmiller at dslonramp.com Thu Dec 20 17:02:11 2001 From: bradmiller at dslonramp.com (Bradley Miller) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Can I use Linux to run DOS programs? In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065584@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.ne t> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20011220110244.01796ad0@mail.dslonramp.com> At 10:37 AM 12/20/01 -0600, you wrote: >(see: CERT Advisory CA-2001-36) MS Sans Serifhttp://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2001-36.html -- Bradley Miller From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Thu Dec 20 17:48:31 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: @Home and DHCP Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A53@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Thanks all for your suggestions. This one works. I'm sure the pump one would work also. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Barnes [mailto:bbarnes33@home.com] > > dhcpcd -h (cj#) > From Jim at itdepends.com Fri Dec 21 01:25:04 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: initrd In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A52@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <01c4742240115c1FE5@mail5.kc.rr.com> Brian, What kind of problems did you have? Why should we not use Mandrake Update to update the kernel? Pass on your hard knocks, so that we won't repeat your mistakes. Thanks, Jim On Thursday 20 December 2001 10:42 am, Brian Densmore wrote: > Important safety tip. Do not use Mandrake Update to update the kernel > via RPM! > > Anyone ever restored the initrd.img file? > > Good thing I have multiple kernels to boot. > Took some major tweaking, but I'm back up with my 2.4.16 kernel. > The 2.4.3 kernel is wiped, the 2.4.8 (update kernel) is toast > and isn't compiling either, and the 2.2.19 kernel panics and dies > may always have, first time trying it). > > Am I having fun or what? > > Thanks, > > Brian Densmore > Associate > mailto:densmoreb@ctbsonline.com > CompuTech Business Solutions, Inc. > http://www.ctbsonline.com/ > (816) 880-0988 x215 > > From derick at shark.zeni.net Fri Dec 21 02:51:33 2001 From: derick at shark.zeni.net (Don Erickson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Can I use Linux to run DOS programs? In-Reply-To: <009e01c1896e0d5fd00501a8c0@davidsdell8200> Message-ID: <200112210252.fBL2qIWx032022@shark.zeni.net> Linux has a dos emulator called dosemu that might run the programs that you want it to. It might be on your distribution disk, or it is avaliable on the internet. Regards, -Don -- .sig lite From zscoundrel at kc.rr.com Fri Dec 21 04:32:51 2001 From: zscoundrel at kc.rr.com (zscoundrel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Can I use Linux to run DOS programs? In-Reply-To: <000e01c189737960c0a@uhc.com> Message-ID: <3C22BBFB.5040703@kc.rr.com> wow. Nice try, but WAY wrong answer. OS/2 is a version of IBM's main frame VM operating system that was written for the PC platform. It was written to REPLACE windows as the machine interface OS. Windoze 3.1 ran on top of OS/2 as an option - IF you paid an extra $35 for the license! Micro$loth was only associated with the project when they charged IBM for the windoze source, and when they collected license fees for each package containing the windoze emulator sold by IBM. I do agree that there may be Linux versions of the solar/lunar program and of course WordPerfect has a version (and distro) for Linux. If the USAF flight planning software is not classified, see if you can get the source and we might be able to port it to Linux. I would be happy to help out with that as I am a pilot and haven't seen any flying software for Linux yet, but a quick search turned up the following links that may be useful: http://www.ibiblio.org/fplan/Aviation-HOWTO/ http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/gps/ Jonathan Hutchins wrote: >David, > >Please send only Plain Text messages to the mailing list. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: David Carter > >>I've been using OS/2 Warp 3 since Sep 1993 and it ran >>DOS programs well. Until my wife bought a new Dell >>mega-machine mid-Nov with Windows ME on it, I've >>been happily insulated from the bugs in Windows OS's. >> > >First, you should know that OS/2 is just an early version of Windows NT, >developed by Microsoft in conjunction with IBM. You might find that NT4 or >W2K would be a good system if you needed MS compatibility. A lot of >progress has been made with personal computers since OS/2 made the scene. > >>I have 3 old DOS programs that I want to continue using: >>A USAF flight planning program, a Navy sunrise-sunset/moonrise-moonset >>program, and WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS. >> > >You may be able to find native Linux equivalents of the first two, and Word >Perfect has Linux compatible versions available. Linux doesn't have any >inherent emulation of DOS, but there are sevaral DOS emulators available. >Linux itself is a mosaic built by many different contributors, and while >some of the distributions give the impression of a coordinated package, >that's an illusion. I would suggest doing some research in the HOWTO's at >www.linuxdoc.org and looking through www.freshmeat.net to see what emulators >and other software is available. > >Good luck, and don't forget to turn off that HTML mail! > > > > -- At 20, I was liberal, because I had nothing to lose and so much to gain. by 40, I was conservative, because I had so much to lose and so little to gain. Isn't it amazing what 20 years of hard work and experience will do for ones' point of view? From jegilliland at hotmail.com Fri Dec 21 05:00:42 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: well, i'm feeling prety darn cool! Message-ID: Hello fellow tuxers, I just thought I would tell everyone that I just installed and configured my new hardware modem, and I am sending this email via konqueror. i know this is not a big deal to you guys, but to a linux newbie like me, it is a great accomplishment. a am frankly suprised that hotmail will work using konqueror. another step away from windows, eric gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From bradmiller at dslonramp.com Fri Dec 21 14:45:15 2001 From: bradmiller at dslonramp.com (Bradley Miller) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Directory creation permission in PHP? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20011221084553.00af3b80@mail.dslonramp.com> Has anyone tried to create a directory (MKDIR) in PHP? I'm wanting this new program I'm working on to check if a directory exists, and if it doesn't, I want it to create it on the fly for the user. I've tried various examples, but I keep getting permissions errors. If I FTP into my site area I can create and chmod the permissinos on a directory to what I need, but that's not exactly automated. Any suggestions? Thanks! -- Bradley Miller From jared at dctkc.com Fri Dec 21 14:52:52 2001 From: jared at dctkc.com (DCT Jared Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Directory creation permission in PHP? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20011221084553.00af3b80@mail.dslonramp.com> Message-ID: <001801c18a2f1d815b0c01a8c0@graphics> I assume you've seen the mkdir comments at http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mkdir.php Note that on Apache, the PHP script is running as user "nobody" which has different permissions than you. If you have access to root, try changing the permissions of user "nobody." Hope this helps. -Jared From gerald at ethereal.com Fri Dec 21 15:03:19 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Directory creation permission in PHP? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20011221084553.00af3b80@mail.dslonramp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Dec 2001, Bradley Miller wrote: > Has anyone tried to create a directory (MKDIR) in PHP? I'm wanting this > new program I'm working on to check if a directory exists, and if it > doesn't, I want it to create it on the fly for the user. I've tried > various examples, but I keep getting permissions errors. If I FTP into my > site area I can create and chmod the permissinos on a directory to what I > need, but that's not exactly automated. Is the PHP script running under your web server or standalone? If it's running under your web server, make sure your web server user has write access to the parent directory you're working in. The user Apache runs as is specified by the "User" directive in httpd.conf. Older distros use 'nobody' (which can be a Bad Idea security-wise); newer ones usually create a separate user, e.g. 'http'. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > > -- Bradley Miller > > > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Fri Dec 21 15:05:25 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: initrd Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065585@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Well, ok. Just remember YOU asked for this rant! :) I opened up Mandrake Update, it went out and found all the security updates. One of those was kernel 2.4.8. I HAD (past tense, see below) 2.4.3. So I selected all the updates and installed them. Everything seemed to work right. I later rebooted, but the system would freeze right after putting out LILO. I pulled out an install disk, ran an upgrade. Switched over to virtual terminal 3 (a root command prompt), deleted System.map (a link) , because the upgrade couldn't install LILO. [sidebar: It was at this point that I noticed there was NO initrd, put it was listed in the lilo.conf file. So the upgrade DID NOT install the initrd.img file needed for the precompiled kernel. That is the crux of the problem.] I then booted into Linux 2.4.16, by the way I reconfigured the network from the install CD and it added the -h blah to the dhcpd commandline, so I think I am using dhcp now for my internet connection [interesting]. But wait there's more. I have recompiled the 2.4.8 kernel, but it panics because of unresolved symbols. 2.2.19 panics also, but to be fair, I suspect it has never worked. The 2.4.16 kernel, which I made the default in the upgrade process, boots fine. Although it is crashing on me every so often. I suspect it has to do with the mon daemon. I will have to recompile that kernel and check the logs. Also when the Mandrake Update updated the kernel it DELETED all the code and binaries for 2.4.3! The directory is there but the code is gone. One possible problem here is that some time back, before I knew better, I had pointed the "/usr/src/linux" directory away from the 2.4.3 and to the 2.4.16 kernel sources. I think my solution for this will be to delete the 2.4.8 library and all code and source related to it. pull down the 2.4.8 sources and recompile, woo hoo. Or maybe I'll try deleting just the library config files first and rerun the make modules_install. Oh what fun it is to compile on a one Athlon PC, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle all the way, Dashing thru the code, looking for the culprit code, crying all the way, Oh what fun it is to compile on a one Athlon PC, > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Herrmann [mailto:Jim@itdepends.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 7:26 PM > To: KCLUG (E-mail) > Subject: Re: initrd > > > Brian, > What kind of problems did you have? Why should we not use > Mandrake Update to > update the kernel? Pass on your hard knocks, so that we > won't repeat your > mistakes. > > Thanks, > Jim From lowell at kc.rr.com Fri Dec 21 23:48:53 2001 From: lowell at kc.rr.com (lowell) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: well, i'm feeling prety darn cool! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Congrats on your new config :-) On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, Eric Gilliland wrote: > > Hello fellow tuxers, > > I just thought I would tell everyone that I just installed and configured my > new hardware modem, and I am sending this email via konqueror. i know this > is not a big deal to you guys, but to a linux newbie like me, it is a great > accomplishment. a am frankly suprised that hotmail will work using > konqueror. > > another step away from windows, > > eric gilliland From hutchins at opus1.com Sun Dec 23 21:55:05 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Did ya ever notice? Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C918E@CAVERN> If you type in "http://www.mandrake.com", it takes you to www.linux-mandrake.com which is titled "Mandrake Linux Home". From hald at sound.net Mon Dec 24 04:15:00 2001 From: hald at sound.net (A Duston) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Did ya ever notice? In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C918E@CAVERN> Message-ID: <3C26ABE4.E8136151@sound.net> Jonathan, And this is responsible for that, I though I don't know what it matters . . . $lynx -source http://www.mandrake.com/ ... Linux Mandrake ... And yes I'm putting html in my email. So flame me. Hal Duston Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > If you type in "http://www.mandrake.com", it takes you to > www.linux-mandrake.com which is titled "Mandrake Linux Home". From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Mon Dec 24 15:50:56 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: initrd In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065585@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <20011224095137.A22113@katya> I echo all of the stuff below I had the same problem. I rebuilt the initrd file, and it still didn't like me. I manually installed the old kernel using rmp, and still no dice. I finally tar'd my /etc /home and a couple other important directories. I reinstalled the system using my local mirror of the installation sets. I did not format the partitions, so I had to do very little updating. I did have to delete the contents of /boot, so that the installer would recreate them. On Fri, Dec , at 09:01:27AM -0600, Brian Densmore wrote: > Well, ok. Just remember YOU asked for this rant! :) > > I opened up Mandrake Update, it went out and found all the security > updates. One of those was kernel 2.4.8. I HAD (past tense, see below) > 2.4.3. So I selected all the updates and installed them. Everything > seemed to work right. I later rebooted, but the system would freeze > right after putting out LILO. I pulled out an install disk, ran an > upgrade. Switched over to virtual terminal 3 (a root command prompt), > deleted System.map (a link) , because the upgrade couldn't install LILO. > > [sidebar: It was at this point that I noticed there was NO initrd, put > it was listed in the lilo.conf file. So the upgrade DID NOT install the > initrd.img file needed for the precompiled kernel. That is the crux of > the problem.] > I then booted into Linux 2.4.16, by the way I reconfigured the network > from the install CD and it added the -h blah to the dhcpd commandline, > so I think I am using dhcp now for my internet connection [interesting]. > > But wait there's more. I have recompiled the 2.4.8 kernel, but it panics > because of unresolved symbols. 2.2.19 panics also, but to be fair, I > suspect it has never worked. The 2.4.16 kernel, which I made the default > in the upgrade process, boots fine. Although it is crashing on me every > so often. I suspect it has to do with the mon daemon. I will have to > recompile that kernel and check the logs. > > Also when the Mandrake Update updated the kernel it DELETED all the code > and binaries for 2.4.3! The directory is there but the code is gone. One > possible problem here is that some time back, before I knew better, I > had pointed the "/usr/src/linux" directory away from the 2.4.3 and to > the 2.4.16 kernel sources. > > I think my solution for this will be to delete the 2.4.8 library and all > code and source related to it. pull down the 2.4.8 sources and > recompile, woo hoo. Or maybe I'll try deleting just the library config > files first and rerun the make modules_install. > > Oh what fun it is to compile on a one Athlon PC, > Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle all the way, > > Dashing thru the code, looking for the culprit code, > crying all the way, > Oh what fun it is to compile on a one Athlon PC, > > -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From zscoundrel at kc.rr.com Tue Dec 25 03:12:13 2001 From: zscoundrel at kc.rr.com (zscoundrel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: test post Message-ID: <3C27EEE4.202@kc.rr.com> Just testing to see if I can still get list messages after TimeWarner hosed my families Email accounts! just a little Christmas jeer from an nasty unfeeling conglomerate! From dattaway at attaway.org Tue Dec 25 07:30:21 2001 From: dattaway at attaway.org (Duane Attaway) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: test post In-Reply-To: <3C27EEE4.202@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: Off the tangent of ISP run mail servers, It would be sure nice if TW would offer static IP's. I used to run my own mailserver for years over a 56K dialup, but the telephone has to go. Sure was nice iptabling sources of spam and not having to play domain hosting games. Sure, I lost all source of anonyminity with a permanent known address, but the responsibility was worth it. They ought to give everyone a non-changing IP address. That ought to clean up much nonsense on the net and let disturbed people like me track who's computer is messing up spreading viruses. I don't know, it just seems like the way dynamic IP's are being pushed is the source of much evil in the world. Tattoo a static IP to each house and I feel that the internet would be more like a community, rather than strangers on a connection that quickly vanishes. Sorry, its 1:30am and Santa drank some good chocolate milk with those cookies and had to rant. Merry Christmas everyone! On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, zscoundrel wrote: > Just testing to see if I can still get list messages after TimeWarner > hosed my families Email accounts! > > just a little Christmas jeer from an nasty unfeeling conglomerate! > > > > From jared at dctkc.com Tue Dec 25 16:30:37 2001 From: jared at dctkc.com (DCT Jared Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: static ip rant In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c18d61167d9a0c01a8c0@graphics> >They ought to give everyone a non-changing IP address. That ought to >clean up much nonsense on the net and let disturbed people like me track >who's computer is messing up spreading viruses. I don't know, it just >seems like the way dynamic IP's are being pushed is the source of much >evil in the world. Tattoo a static IP to each house and I feel that the >internet would be more like a community, rather than strangers on a >connection that quickly vanishes. Patience. Patience. It's coming soon enough. (Revelations 13) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name . . . -J From mrkshrt at transparentsolutions.com Tue Dec 25 17:15:40 2001 From: mrkshrt at transparentsolutions.com (mrkshrt@transparentsolutions.com) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: test post Message-ID: <81E72D5DAFE7D311BA5F00A0CC58627809FFCC@EXCHANGE> They do, 30 bucks more a month. You also are supposed to get local tech support with that option. -----Original Message----- From: Duane Attaway [mailto:dattaway@attaway.org] Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 1:32 AM To: zscoundrel Cc: kclug@kclug.org Subject: Re: test post Off the tangent of ISP run mail servers, It would be sure nice if TW would offer static IP's. I used to run my own mailserver for years over a 56K dialup, but the telephone has to go. Sure was nice iptabling sources of spam and not having to play domain hosting games. Sure, I lost all source of anonyminity with a permanent known address, but the responsibility was worth it. They ought to give everyone a non-changing IP address. That ought to clean up much nonsense on the net and let disturbed people like me track who's computer is messing up spreading viruses. I don't know, it just seems like the way dynamic IP's are being pushed is the source of much evil in the world. Tattoo a static IP to each house and I feel that the internet would be more like a community, rather than strangers on a connection that quickly vanishes. Sorry, its 1:30am and Santa drank some good chocolate milk with those cookies and had to rant. Merry Christmas everyone! On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, zscoundrel wrote: > Just testing to see if I can still get list messages after TimeWarner > hosed my families Email accounts! > > just a little Christmas jeer from an nasty unfeeling conglomerate! > > > > From rcb at kc.rr.com Tue Dec 25 17:41:35 2001 From: rcb at kc.rr.com (Bob Batson) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: test post In-Reply-To: <3C27EEE4.202@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: At 9:13 PM -0600 12/24/01, zscoundrel wrote: >Just testing to see if I can still get list messages after >TimeWarner hosed my families Email accounts! >just a little Christmas jeer from an nasty unfeeling conglomerate! Got your test msg. & am replying via the list. Don't forget that TimeWarner is now a part of AOL, the wonderful folks who are responsible for "Internet for Dummies". -- Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W rcb@kc.rr.com Kansas City TCS - Mystic Fire Priest USDA Zone 5 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will do exactly as it pleases. From s_p_hildreth at yahoo.com Wed Dec 26 00:34:33 2001 From: s_p_hildreth at yahoo.com (Steven Hildreth) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: test post In-Reply-To: <81E72D5DAFE7D311BA5F00A0CC58627809FFCC@EXCHANGE> Message-ID: <001901c18da5ea1c3e0/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bash300a8c0@steven> I use a Dynamic DNS service, like dyndns.org and the Cable Router that I have supports this update when the IP assigned to it changes. Just my two cents. Regards, Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 11:16 AM Subject: RE: test post > They do, 30 bucks more a month. > You also are supposed to get local tech support with that option. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Duane Attaway [mailto:dattaway@attaway.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 1:32 AM > To: zscoundrel > Cc: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Re: test post > > > Off the tangent of ISP run mail servers, It would be sure nice if TW would > offer static IP's. I used to run my own mailserver for years over a 56K > dialup, but the telephone has to go. Sure was nice iptabling sources of > spam and not having to play domain hosting games. Sure, I lost all source > of anonyminity with a permanent known address, but the responsibility was > worth it. > > They ought to give everyone a non-changing IP address. That ought to > clean up much nonsense on the net and let disturbed people like me track > who's computer is messing up spreading viruses. I don't know, it just > seems like the way dynamic IP's are being pushed is the source of much > evil in the world. Tattoo a static IP to each house and I feel that the > internet would be more like a community, rather than strangers on a > connection that quickly vanishes. > > Sorry, its 1:30am and Santa drank some good chocolate milk with those > cookies and had to rant. Merry Christmas everyone! > > On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, zscoundrel wrote: > > > Just testing to see if I can still get list messages after TimeWarner > > hosed my families Email accounts! > > > > just a little Christmas jeer from an nasty unfeeling conglomerate! > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 26 01:03:28 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: test post Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9190@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Duane Attaway [mailto:dattaway@attaway.org] > Off the tangent of ISP run mail servers, It would be sure > nice if TW would offer static IP's They do, around $70/Mo. Mine only changes if I go down for a while, even a quick reboot usually gets the same address. From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Wed Dec 26 14:13:53 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C29DB5E.8090703@innovision.com> Too bad that wouldn't stop spammers from using mail servers to relay. Anyone notice how tons of spam seems to be relayed through msn.com or that IE allows pop-ups that take over your desktop and can't be closed? I'm wondering if this is an oversight or if M$ is selling these "features"... Duane Attaway wrote: >They ought to give everyone a non-changing IP address. That ought to >clean up much nonsense on the net and let disturbed people like me track >who's computer is messing up spreading viruses. I don't know, it just >seems like the way dynamic IP's are being pushed is the source of much >evil in the world. Tattoo a static IP to each house and I feel that the >internet would be more like a community, rather than strangers on a >connection that quickly vanishes. > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 26 14:15:42 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: initrd Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A5B@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > From: JD Runyan [mailto:Jason.Runyan@nitckc.usda.gov] > > I echo all of the stuff below I had the same problem. I rebuilt the > initrd file, and it still didn't like me. I manually > installed the old > kernel using rmp, and still no dice. I finally tar'd my /etc > /home and > a couple other important directories. I reinstalled the > system using my > local mirror of the installation sets. I did not format the > partitions, > so I had to do very little updating. I did have to delete > the contents > of /boot, so that the installer would recreate them. > Bummer. Well, I guess that simplifies things for me. I will just install and compile a different kernel. I have too many things installed/configured to reinstall right now. Thanks for the info, obviously there are many rough edges that need chiseling off in Linux yet. [sigh] Thanks again, Brian From gerald at ethereal.com Wed Dec 26 14:48:31 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post In-Reply-To: <3C29DB5E.8090703@innovision.com> Message-ID: Sometimes a dynamic address can be a good and useful thing: ---- >From daniel@pressure.net.nz Tue Dec 25 11:34:35 2001 From: Daniel Swarbrick To: bugtraq@securityfocus.com Subject: Possible hole in Win XP MS Client networking Hi, I hope this is the correct contact for this kind of thing. I've just had somebody drop Nimda viruses on my Windows XP Pro workstation from Korea. Here's how it happened. I had a Windows share on a FAT32 drive, which granted read/write to Everybody (I know, bad practice, but it was just a temporary "Incoming" directory from a file swap session with a friend a few nights ago). I noticed my modem lights going, even though I was not downloading anything at the time. At that moment, Norton Antivirus started popping up warnings about Nimda viruses in .EML files in the shared directory. I suspected my friend's files had come with a little extra bonus, so went to check the directory myself. I couldn't find more than one .EML file at a time (as NAV kept moving them to quarantine), but new ones kept arriving. That's when I clicked as to what was happening, and ran netstat from a DOS window. Netstat revealed an ESTABLISHED connection from a host in Korea to the microsoft-ds service on my machine. It also showed a TIME_WAIT connection to windowsupdate.microsoft.com, although I had not been to that site - possibly unrelated, as Windows does tend to phone home a bit. Anyway, I promptly stopped sharing the directory, and disconnected from the Internet, reconnecting in order to get a new IP. I then checked my network configuration, and double checked that Client for Microsoft Networks was not bound to my modem, which indeed it wasn't. Now I don't run the XP firewall for my dialup connection, but how is it that a connection can be made to a service that is not bound to the dialup adapter? Is this a hole? Can you guys perhaps replicate the condition and see if it is? My machine has all the current critical updates applied from Windows update. Any other information you might need, I will try to supply. ---- On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: > Too bad that wouldn't stop spammers from using mail servers to relay. > Anyone notice how tons of spam seems to be relayed through msn.com or > that IE allows pop-ups that take over your desktop and can't be closed? > I'm wondering if this is an oversight or if M$ is selling these > "features"... > > Duane Attaway wrote: > > >They ought to give everyone a non-changing IP address. That ought to > >clean up much nonsense on the net and let disturbed people like me track > >who's computer is messing up spreading viruses. I don't know, it just > >seems like the way dynamic IP's are being pushed is the source of much > >evil in the world. Tattoo a static IP to each house and I feel that the > >internet would be more like a community, rather than strangers on a > >connection that quickly vanishes. > > > > > > > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 26 14:57:32 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A5C@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> ROFL! Another good reason to use Linux and Secure FTP. Thanks for the laugh, Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerald Combs [mailto:gerald@ethereal.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 8:49 AM > To: Marvin Bellamy > Cc: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Re: OT-Re: test post > > > Sometimes a dynamic address can be a good and useful thing: > > ---- > From daniel@pressure.net.nz Tue Dec 25 11:34:35 2001 > Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 18:09:02 +1300 > From: Daniel Swarbrick > To: bugtraq@securityfocus.com > Subject: Possible hole in Win XP MS Client networking > > Hi, I hope this is the correct contact for this kind of thing. > > I've just had somebody drop Nimda viruses on my Windows XP Pro > workstation from Korea. Here's how it happened. > > I had a Windows share on a FAT32 drive, which granted read/write to > Everybody (I know, bad practice, but it was just a temporary > "Incoming" > directory from a file swap session with a friend a few nights ago). I > noticed my modem lights going, even though I was not downloading > anything at the time. At that moment, Norton Antivirus started popping > up warnings about Nimda viruses in .EML files in the shared > directory. I > suspected my friend's files had come with a little extra > bonus, so went > to check the directory myself. I couldn't find more than one .EML file > at a time (as NAV kept moving them to quarantine), but new ones kept > arriving. That's when I clicked as to what was happening, and ran > netstat from a DOS window. > > Netstat revealed an ESTABLISHED connection from a host in Korea to the > microsoft-ds service on my machine. It also showed a TIME_WAIT > connection to windowsupdate.microsoft.com, although I had not been to > that site - possibly unrelated, as Windows does tend to phone home a > bit. Anyway, I promptly stopped sharing the directory, and > disconnected > from the Internet, reconnecting in order to get a new IP. > > I then checked my network configuration, and double checked > that Client > for Microsoft Networks was not bound to my modem, which indeed it > wasn't. Now I don't run the XP firewall for my dialup connection, but > how is it that a connection can be made to a service that is not bound > to the dialup adapter? > > Is this a hole? Can you guys perhaps replicate the condition > and see if > it is? My machine has all the current critical updates applied from > Windows update. > > Any other information you might need, I will try to supply. > ---- > > > On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Marvin Bellamy wrote: > > > Too bad that wouldn't stop spammers from using mail servers > to relay. > > Anyone notice how tons of spam seems to be relayed through > msn.com or > > that IE allows pop-ups that take over your desktop and > can't be closed? > > I'm wondering if this is an oversight or if M$ is selling these > > "features"... > > > > Duane Attaway wrote: > > > > >They ought to give everyone a non-changing IP address. > That ought to > > >clean up much nonsense on the net and let disturbed people > like me track > > >who's computer is messing up spreading viruses. I don't > know, it just > > >seems like the way dynamic IP's are being pushed is the > source of much > > >evil in the world. Tattoo a static IP to each house and I > feel that the > > >internet would be more like a community, rather than strangers on a > > >connection that quickly vanishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Wed Dec 26 15:26:47 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C29EC74.4@innovision.com> Not at all being a smart ass, but when? I've run into some very useful commands that are unfortunately not smart to expose in the spammer era (SMTP VRFY for example)... Gerald Combs wrote: >Sometimes a dynamic address can be a good and useful thing: > >---- > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 26 15:38:08 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065586@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Well, for one thing, dynamic IP addresses are very useful for system administrators of medium to huge networks. Maintaining static IP addresses for a large network can be time consuming, even with automation scripts. Secondly, I think [correct me if I'm wrong] Gerald was trying to imply that a dynamic address could be useful against attacks on a single IP address. Which brings up an interesting question. Can a DHCP server re-assign an IP address to a currently connected device, without that device having to bring networking down and back up? This would be a useful tool to be used in combination with a firewall. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Marvin Bellamy [mailto:Marvin.Bellamy@innovision.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 9:28 AM > To: Gerald Combs > Cc: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Re: OT-Re: test post > > > Not at all being a smart ass, but when? I've run into some > very useful > commands that are unfortunately not smart to expose in the > spammer era > (SMTP VRFY for example)... > > Gerald Combs wrote: > > >Sometimes a dynamic address can be a good and useful thing: > > > >---- > > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From jegilliland at hotmail.com Wed Dec 26 16:10:10 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: a question re: security Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I hope you all had a merry christmas. I have a question about security. As I said in a previous post, I recently installed a hardware modem, and can now get on the internet via linux. As recommended by Mandrake, I installed and ran BastilleChooser. I set the security level for "Paraniod", said that the machine is Not a server, and it was done. My first question is Is this sufficient to protect me while browsing? I do not download many things, and when I do it is generally from a "respectable" source like ZDNet. Are there any other security measures I need to take? My other question is about viruses. Is there a good antivirus package for linux? Do I need an antivirus package? I found one via ZDNet, but it was kind of expensive ($50). My interent use is basically email browsing (generally using Konqueror) and Quake III (as soon as I get a linux version). Any thoughts on my need for an antivirus package? For background, I am running Mandrake 8.1 on a Dell Dimension 8100 Pentuim 4 1.3 with 256 megs of RAM and a 56k modem internet connection. I dial up using kppp. Thanks in advance, Eric J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 26 16:30:40 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: a question re: security Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065587@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Eric, My opinion is that you don't need an antivirus package for Linux. I haven't actually seen any Linux "viruses". I have seen some worms [none on my box, just CERT advisories], but if you don't use the root account and you haven't given your account special privileges you have nothing to worry about. This may change in the future. Secondly, if you set your security to paranoid, you should be safe from all but the most toxic of crackers [again provided you don't run as root]. Having a user account as opposed to using the superuser root account is your best protection against crackers. You will want to get on a security list somewhere to keep current with the latest weaknesses [and fixes] in software. And yes I did have a Merry Christmas. Now I need to go out and chop some more wood for New Years. :) I hope yours was merry, you didn't mention. My $1/50, Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 10:00 AM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: a question re: security > > > Hello Everyone, > > I hope you all had a merry christmas. > > I have a question about security. As I said in a previous > post, I recently > installed a hardware modem, and can now get on the internet > via linux. As > recommended by Mandrake, I installed and ran BastilleChooser. > I set the > security level for "Paraniod", said that the machine is Not a > server, and it > was done. My first question is Is this sufficient to protect > me while > browsing? I do not download many things, and when I do it is > generally from > a "respectable" source like ZDNet. Are there any other > security measures I > need to take? > > My other question is about viruses. Is there a good > antivirus package for > linux? Do I need an antivirus package? I found one via ZDNet, > but it was > kind of expensive ($50). My interent use is basically email browsing > (generally using Konqueror) and Quake III (as soon as I get a linux > version). Any thoughts on my need for an antivirus package? > > For background, I am running Mandrake 8.1 on a Dell Dimension > 8100 Pentuim 4 > 1.3 with 256 megs of RAM and a 56k modem internet connection. > I dial up > using kppp. > > Thanks in advance, > > Eric > > > J. Eric Gilliland > jegilliland@hotmail.com > Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and > be a villain. > Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From jared at dctkc.com Wed Dec 26 19:04:41 2001 From: jared at dctkc.com (DCT Jared Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: regarding security on linux Message-ID: <000f01c18e40b15e1b0c01a8c0@graphics> >My opinion is that you don't need an antivirus package for Linux. I >haven't actually seen any Linux "viruses". I have seen some worms [none >on my box, just CERT advisories], but if you don't use the root account >and you haven't given your account special privileges you have nothing >to worry about. This may change in the future. Mmm. Never a wise approach to think you're immune. I think the main reason there are more MS viruses is because there are more users (thus more crackers, although per capitas may be similar), the line about needing root access is a ruse; both OSes have plenty of viruses and firewall breaches. If Linux were as popular as MS, there would be as many viruses, you can count on it. They would simply be handled more efficiently: that's the valid argument for Linux (ie not blind trust). What's the point of making a virus for a system which everyone loves to patch? Well, whoever said there was a point to viruses? :-) A simple Google search on the words 'linux virus' brought up some things which you may want to know about: http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/09/18/insecurities.html -jared From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 26 19:54:54 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: regarding security on Linux Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065588@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: DCT Jared Smith [mailto:jared@dctkc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 1:05 PM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: regarding security on Linux > > > >My opinion is that you don't need an antivirus package for Linux. I > >haven't actually seen any Linux "viruses". I have seen some > worms [none > >on my box, just CERT advisories], but if you don't use the > root account > >and you haven't given your account special privileges you > have nothing > >to worry about. This may change in the future. > > Mmm. Never a wise approach to think you're immune. Well, true said! But I was mainly stating that I haven't seen any viruses yet. Secondly, in order to get infected with a virus, you must first execute it. Whether your OS executes it for you [nice OS, friendly OS, yessss precious so friendly and triksy precious] or you click on it and execute doesn't really matter. I haven't seen a need for a virus scanner, yet. I do make a habit of pulling down security patches, as I recommended. > > I think the main reason there are more MS viruses is because there > are more users (thus more crackers, although per capitas may > be similar), go figure ;) > the line about needing root access is a ruse; both OSes have > plenty of > viruses and firewall breaches. Umm, no. If you don't run as root and your account doesn't have root access and you don't have some slick way of getting root access, you can only damage your own account and directory and programs with a "virus". You should have read his post more carefully, he selected "paranoid". Mandrake's "paranoid" and Bastille hardening on the OS will have removed many services and disabled all those nice little "su" utilities. He has crippled his system for security's sake. Many things on his menu may not work now because of not being able to "su" via a program [at least that was my experience with Mandrake 7.x]. I could be wrong, it has been known to happen. And yes there are abundant bad guys out there writing bad code, but some system are more resilient and protect friendly. > > If Linux were as popular as MS, there would be as many viruses, > you can count on it. They would simply be handled more efficiently: > that's the valid argument for Linux (i.e. not blind trust). Umm, wrong again. You are unlikely to ever see the same quantity of viruses. Because many M$ viruses pray on the stupidity of the OS. [i.e. USE web browser to view e-mail, link in all other programs to browser, allow browser to launch programs without the users knowledge, etc, etc, etc] > > What's the point of making a virus for a system which everyone > loves to patch? Well, whoever said there was a point to viruses? :-) Windoze is not a virus. Viruses are frequently updated and well documented by their authors. :) > > A simple Google search on the words 'Linux virus' brought up > some things which you may want to know about: > > http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/09/18/insecurities.html I didn't see very many viruses [granted a quick scan]. Mostly exploits and worms. I distinguish between the two. Viruses can be prevented by not executing them. Worms and exploits are much more difficult to control and virus scanners don't usually help here. Thanks for the link and stimulating conversation, Brian P.S. Hopefully this will help our friend in deciding what to do. BTW, I forgot to include a link for a scanner in case anyone want to use one. It has been posted to the list before. It is (IMHO) mostly useful for removing M$ viruses, but also is useful for those pesky Linux viruses. ;) http://www.amavis.org/amavis.html From James.Rankin-KC at Gateway.com Wed Dec 26 20:05:44 2001 From: James.Rankin-KC at Gateway.com (Rankin, James - KC) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Quickcam Express Message-ID: I would like to know if a Logitech Quickcam Express USB will work with Mandrake Linux 8.1? From chris at datacaptech.com Wed Dec 26 20:35:44 2001 From: chris at datacaptech.com (Chris Midkiff) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Quickcam Express In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The hardware database at Mandrake lists the 'QuickCam Express' with a Serial connection as supported, but makes no mention of the USB type. http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/hard-details.php3?F_TYPE=input&F_ID=113 There is an Alpha stage USB Quickcam Express driver at http://sourceforge.net/projects/qce-ga I would say that the answer is 'Not Yet'. Chris Midkiff -----Original Message----- From: owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net [mailto:owner-kclug@marauder.illiana.net]On Behalf Of Rankin, James - KC Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:07 PM To: KCLUG (E-mail) Subject: Quickcam Express I would like to know if a Logitech Quickcam Express USB will work with Mandrake Linux 8.1? From gerald at ethereal.com Wed Dec 26 20:36:46 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065586@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Brian Densmore wrote: > Well, for one thing, dynamic IP addresses are very useful for system > administrators of medium to huge networks. Maintaining static IP > addresses for a large network can be time consuming, even with > automation scripts. Secondly, I think [correct me if I'm wrong] Gerald > was trying to imply that a dynamic address could be useful against > attacks on a single IP address. You're correct. BTW, from an ISP perspective, static IPs are a HUGE hassle. Most ISPs are forced by their upstream provider, ARIN, or both to be very efficient about their address space usage, and don't have a much space at their disposal at any given time. This means that they have to reallocate address blocks on a regular basis. This is easy if your access users are all dynamic - you move addresses in and out of your pool(s) as needed. You can also use a relatively small pool of addresses to serve a large amount of customers (this works for dialup more so than cable and DSL). Doling out static addresses throws a wrench in both of these - your static users are Yet Another Thing you have to worry about when reallocating space, and these same (often high-maintenance) users are sucking up your address space so that they can run a web/mail/FTP/DNS server on the cheap. Personally, I don't fault Time Warner (or any other ISP) for charging a premium for static blocks. I'll stop ranting now. > Which brings up an interesting question. Can a DHCP server re-assign an > IP address to a currently connected device, without that device having > to bring networking down and back up? This would be a useful tool to be > used in combination with a firewall. I don't think DHCP currently support this - as far as I know, the RFCs only specify client-initiated configuration requests. I think it's part of the DCHP-for-IPv6 draft spec, though. > Brian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Marvin Bellamy [mailto:Marvin.Bellamy@innovision.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 9:28 AM > > To: Gerald Combs > > Cc: kclug@kclug.org > > Subject: Re: OT-Re: test post > > > > > > Not at all being a smart ass, but when? I've run into some > > very useful > > commands that are unfortunately not smart to expose in the > > spammer era > > (SMTP VRFY for example)... > > > > Gerald Combs wrote: > > > > >Sometimes a dynamic address can be a good and useful thing: > > > > > >---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > > > > From gerald at ethereal.com Wed Dec 26 20:40:40 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Presentation? Message-ID: I am going to do a presentation on Ethereal and network troubleshooting in early February. I don't do a lot of public speaking, so it would help me out a bit if I were able to practice on some vic^H^Holunteers before then. Would anyone be interested in hearing about these topics at one or both of the January meetings? From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 26 20:44:21 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Quickcam Express Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A60@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Don't bet on it! http://www.cs.duke.edu/~reynolds/cqcam/faq.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Rankin, James - KC [mailto:James.Rankin-KC@Gateway.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:07 PM > To: KCLUG (E-mail) > Subject: Quickcam Express > > > I would like to know if a Logitech Quickcam Express USB will work with > Mandrake Linux 8.1? > > From jared at dctkc.com Wed Dec 26 20:51:37 2001 From: jared at dctkc.com (DCT Jared Smith) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Presentation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001c01c18e4fa3e0fc0c01a8c0@graphics> sign me up, as long as there's lots of info which is not easily related by any ol' troubleshooting FAQ on the 'net; like hunches, intuition, and peculiarities gleaned from your experiences. -j From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Wed Dec 26 20:57:24 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Presentation? Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A61@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Sure, I haven't done any real network troubleshooting yet. I should prove interesting. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerald Combs [mailto:gerald@ethereal.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:41 PM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Presentation? > > > I am going to do a presentation on Ethereal and network > troubleshooting in > early February. I don't do a lot of public speaking, so it > would help me > out a bit if I were able to practice on some vic^H^Holunteers > before then. > Would anyone be interested in hearing about these topics at > one or both of > the January meetings? > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From jegilliland at hotmail.com Wed Dec 26 21:40:50 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: regarding security on Linux Message-ID: >Umm, no. If you don't run as root and your account doesn't have root >access and you don't have some slick way of getting root access, you can >only damage your own account and directory and programs with a "virus". I never run as root unless I have to. I at least know enough not to do that! >He has crippled his system for security's sake. Many things on his menu may >not >work now because of not being able to "su" via a program [at least that >was my experience with Mandrake 7.x]. How badly have I crippled my system? So things may not run because of this? It will not simply prompt me for root's password, like it does when I go to install an RPM? I'm not sure I like that. DO you think I would be better off selecting "normal" instead of "paraniod"? > > A simple Google search on the words 'Linux virus' brought up > > some things which you may want to know about: > > > > http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/09/18/insecurities.html Thanks for the link. >I didn't see very many viruses [granted a quick scan]. Mostly exploits >and worms. I distinguish between the two. Viruses can be prevented by >not executing them. Worms and exploits are much more difficult to >control and virus scanners don't usually help here. I never execute attachments, even those from people I know. I do use web-based email, though, as you can tell from my evil M$ email address. As for the Quake III for Linux availability tip, I appreciate it, but I regret to say that I cannot buy any games until I finish my thesis. I am sure it will still be available then, though. I would still be afraid to brave Oak Park mall for a couple of days, too. I heard it was really bad there. Thanks again for the advise. Eric _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 26 22:37:32 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9192@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Densmore [mailto:DensmoreB@ctbsonline.com] > Can a DHCP server re-assign an IP address to a currently > connected device, without that device having > to bring networking down and back up? Yes, but... When you configure DHCP, you establish a "lease time" that the assignment is good for. Most clients start checking in at about 50% of the lease time. If, at that time, there is a change, DHCP can change any and all settings on a "live" connection. You have to compromise between rapid updates/changes and network traffic - obviously a large DHCP pool with a short least time would result in DHCP storms. In the case of a long lease time and the need to make a quick change, you just make the changes in DHCP, implement the other change, and figure about half the users will reboot on their own, while the others can be told to when they call the Help Desk because something stopped working. From hutchins at opus1.com Wed Dec 26 22:41:04 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9193@CAVERN> Overbooking your address space is really only good when a majority of your users not only aren't on-line a high percentage of the available time, but when a majority don't want to be on at the same time. Either you have a pool large enough for everybody who wants on at prime time, in which case you can't save much, or you have "unable to connect" errors. From mrkshrt at transparentsolutions.com Wed Dec 26 23:17:14 2001 From: mrkshrt at transparentsolutions.com (mrkshrt@transparentsolutions.com) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post Message-ID: <81E72D5DAFE7D311BA5F00A0CC58627809FFCF@EXCHANGE> I think in general that broadband ISP's use DHCP to make it a little harder to use their network for home based servers, unless you are paying extra for it. This doesn't stop a person from doing it, but it does mean that you will have more outages. The biggest reason though is probably because it is easier to tell clients how to set up DHCP than static configs. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Hutchins [mailto:hutchins@opus1.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 4:34 PM To: 'Brian Densmore'; kclug@kclug.org Subject: RE: OT-Re: test post > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Densmore [mailto:DensmoreB@ctbsonline.com] > Can a DHCP server re-assign an IP address to a currently > connected device, without that device having > to bring networking down and back up? Yes, but... When you configure DHCP, you establish a "lease time" that the assignment is good for. Most clients start checking in at about 50% of the lease time. If, at that time, there is a change, DHCP can change any and all settings on a "live" connection. You have to compromise between rapid updates/changes and network traffic - obviously a large DHCP pool with a short least time would result in DHCP storms. In the case of a long lease time and the need to make a quick change, you just make the changes in DHCP, implement the other change, and figure about half the users will reboot on their own, while the others can be told to when they call the Help Desk because something stopped working. From jegilliland at hotmail.com Wed Dec 26 23:52:10 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: please help again Message-ID: Well, I'm afraid I have really screwed up this time. I just started linux, loaded as normal, and then my mouse started acting funny. No matter where I moved it it kept going up to the top right corner. Had trouble opening anything with it. It was working fine an hour ago. Even worse, I think I may have inadvetently changed my root password to something I don't know! I had a terminal open in su mode to run bastillechooser, thinking that might be the problem. I didn't try to change it, but when i tried to log in as root it told me the login failed, and I know i put in the right password. PLease help and thanks in advance. Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From jegilliland at hotmail.com Wed Dec 26 23:54:25 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: more info Message-ID: I forgot to give basic info. I ma running Mandrake linux 8.1 on a Dell Dimension 8100 Pentium 4 1.3 with 256 megs of ram. Also, I booted into failsafe mode, and it changed a bunch of file permissions when it booted. I am very confused and upset. Any ideas? Please let me know what further information I can give and I will do my best to collect it. Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From lists at kc.rr.com Thu Dec 27 02:10:55 2001 From: lists at kc.rr.com (Monty J. Harder) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: test post In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9190@CAVERN> Message-ID: <000d01c18e7b4581a41@Dexter> "Jonathan Hutchins" wrote: > > nice if TW would offer static IP's > Mine only changes if I go down for a while, even a quick reboot usually gets > the same address. I call this a "persistent" (but yet still dynamic) IP address. As a practical matter, as long as you reboot before the DHCP lease expires, you'll get the same address But there are no gurantees. In theory, the DHCP server can decide not to renew leases. From lists at kc.rr.com Thu Dec 27 02:14:02 2001 From: lists at kc.rr.com (Monty J. Harder) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c18e7c869b6304581a41@Dexter> "Gerald Combs" wrote: > I then checked my network configuration, and double checked that Client > for Microsoft Networks was not bound to my modem, which indeed it > wasn't. Now I don't run the XP firewall for my dialup connection, but > how is it that a connection can be made to a service that is not bound > to the dialup adapter? Client for Microsoft Networks runs on top of TCP/IP. From lists at kc.rr.com Thu Dec 27 02:17:36 2001 From: lists at kc.rr.com (Monty J. Harder) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065586@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <002101c18e7c4581a41@Dexter> "Brian Densmore" wrote: > Which brings up an interesting question. Can a DHCP server re-assign an > IP address to a currently connected device, without that device having > to bring networking down and back up? This would be a useful tool to be > used in combination with a firewall. Yes. But the client generally has to ask for this to happen. The magic words are Release and Renew. It just wouldn't do for an address to suddenly and unexpectedly become invalid. From gerald at ethereal.com Thu Dec 27 02:48:23 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post In-Reply-To: <002101c18e7c4581a41@Dexter> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Monty J. Harder wrote: > "Brian Densmore" wrote: > > > Which brings up an interesting question. Can a DHCP server re-assign an > > IP address to a currently connected device, without that device having > > to bring networking down and back up? This would be a useful tool to be > > used in combination with a firewall. > > Yes. But the client generally has to ask for this to happen. The magic > words are Release and Renew. It just wouldn't do for an address to suddenly > and unexpectedly become invalid. I did a little research, and ran across RFC 3203 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3203.txt), which was approved earlier this month. It describes the DHCP FORCERENEW message extension, which does exactly what Brian is asking for. Now we just have to wait for it to be implemented in the various DHCP servers and clients. Preferably after DHCP auth (RFC 3118) gets implemented. :) From lists at kc.rr.com Thu Dec 27 03:04:32 2001 From: lists at kc.rr.com (Monty J. Harder) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: OT-Re: test post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00bb01c18e8369407a04581a41@Dexter> "Gerald Combs" > I did a little research, and ran across RFC 3203 > (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3203.txt), which was approved earlier this > month. It describes the DHCP FORCERENEW message extension, which does > exactly what Brian is asking for. Now we just have to wait for it to be > implemented in the various DHCP servers and clients. Preferably after > DHCP auth (RFC 3118) gets implemented. :) This is an obvious next step on the way to IPv6, under which the very notion of static IP becomes irrelevant for most purposes. On the one hand, since the less-significant half of the address is supposed to be unique, it's about as "static" as it can get. But on the other hand, the more-significant "network" portion of the address is in theory always dynamic (with the exception of the backbone itself), with a very short "lease" life. This is supposed to reflect the idea that the network address incorporates routing information. It is obviously of the greatest value to mobile devices, but it's equally possible for the network itself to "move" while the devices remain geographically stationary. From davideng at ponyexpress.net Thu Dec 27 05:56:30 2001 From: davideng at ponyexpress.net (David P. Engvall) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Remote Admin Message-ID: <3C2AB9E7.9E0359F@ponyexpress.net> kclug << Forgive my MS naivety. But can Windows machines be administered remotely? Win 98? Win 2000? Win XP? Last year I was running a network of SGI machines and I could easily do the following. Login to a machine across the network and interface with it using a shell or a graphical interface. Change to a local user. Load software on a machine to which I was logged into remotely. Bring up a local users desktop on my (remote) machine to check if everything was working correctly. Has Windows gotten to this capability that has been around with unix machines for years? Thanks in advance. Dave From vector99 at earthlink.net Thu Dec 27 06:34:50 2001 From: vector99 at earthlink.net (Lance Feagan Earthlink) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:50 2004 Subject: Remote Admin In-Reply-To: <3C2AB9E7.9E0359F@ponyexpress.net> Message-ID: Haha, wouldn't that be nice if MS had those nice features. Windows 98 really has nothing quite like that. Windows 2000 has a telnet server that you can install. With that you can telnet in and do many tasks. There is no GUI though, so, that is sort of annoying. Windows XP does have a tool for remote administration of a computer. However, in my opinion it does not meet up with the same security as I would like to see in a product of this type. If you want to remote admin a windows computer, in general, something like back orifice or sub seven may be able to help you out. These programs are typically seen as programs that someone uses on a computer to gain access that they are not supposed to have or to watch what someone else is doing, however, they can also be used and were really intended for remote administration. Both programs are free. For nice security info, etc, goto www.astalavista.box.sk You can find links to the programs there if you run a search. --Lance P.S. Isn't a real UNIX system nice? Ah, how I love SGIs, HPs, Compaqs (DECs) and other nice commercial UNIXes. From hutchins at opus1.com Thu Dec 27 13:24:25 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Remote Admin Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9195@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: David P. Engvall [mailto:davideng@ponyexpress.net] > Forgive my MS naivete. But can Windows machines be > administered remotely? > Win 98? > Win 2000? > Win XP? I know that 95 and NT4 can be remotely administered using Microsoft utilities from the resource kits, if you've set them up with the proper profiles and permissions. There are also utilities in the SMS system that do this, so I would presume they carry forward to 98, W2K, and XP. There are a number of third-party utilities, not the least of which is pcAnywhere. A friend of mine uses VNC "on everything", and does his remote admin that way. I guess this is one of those MS questions where the answer is "yeah, but it'll cost ya". From jegilliland at hotmail.com Thu Dec 27 13:52:40 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: my mouse freaking out Message-ID: So, no one has any idea why my mouse is freaking out? I hate to take the drastic step of reinstalling. Eric Gilliland _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From jegilliland at hotmail.com Thu Dec 27 13:57:25 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: paraniod security Message-ID: Hi Folks, I have an indication from MandrakeExpert that the 'paranoid' security setting disables the mouse server and several other things. The MandrakeExpert recommends that I use InteractiveBastille to chenge these settings. Any ideas? I hope I can handle InteractiveBastille. The machine is only a workstation, so perhaps it won't be too bad. ANy advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Eric Gilliland _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From jdfranklin.public at moheck.com Thu Dec 27 14:15:21 2001 From: jdfranklin.public at moheck.com (Franklin, Joel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Remote Admin [OT] Message-ID: <670AD4787C63D41194350008C786649D02A01671@KCMOMAIL1> >Forgive my MS naivety. Sure. I'll also forgive your naivete of ritual Satanic abuse and axe murder, so long as you'll pardon my intimate knowledge of MS products... >But can Windows machines be administered remotely? You can remotely administer Windows 2000 servers via a GUI. You can remotely administer XP workstations via a GUI. There was a version of NT 4.0 server that permitted remote GUI administration. >Has Windows gotten to this capability that has been around with unix machines for years? Windows has always had this capability IF you purchased additional software - PC Anywhere springs to mind, though there are other packages designed specifically for network/help desk support of users. Joel Franklin Network Analyst From jegilliland at hotmail.com Thu Dec 27 14:24:19 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: my mouse freaking out Message-ID: >Is it a wheel mouse? Sometimes I noticed with Mandrake, I'd have to move >the wheel a bit to get it straigtened out again. It is a wheel mouse, but it was working fine an hour before. I also reset all the settings to default. >The other cause is that the mouse settings aren't properly set, or the >mouse was changed. The mouse has not changed. Thanks, Eric Gilliland _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Thu Dec 27 14:58:46 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Remote Admin [OT] Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A63@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> You speaking of NT Terminal Server edition. And yes it works and it'll cost you a wad of Microsoft Bucks. We use VNC; slow and somewhat sticky, but free. There are many other 3rd party utilities, one from Australia comes to mind [but I can't recall the name, but very fast and slick]. We also use VNC because, I have to get in from home and I only use Windoze at work. VNC is much nicer and faster when running on Linux. > -----Original Message----- > From: Franklin, Joel [mailto:jdfranklin.public@moheck.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:14 AM > To: KC Linux User Group > Subject: RE: Remote Admin [OT] > > > >Forgive my MS naivety. > Sure. I'll also forgive your naiveté of ritual Satanic abuse > and axe murder, > so long as you'll pardon my intimate knowledge of MS products... > > >But can Windows machines be administered remotely? > You can remotely administer Windows 2000 servers via a GUI. > You can remotely > administer XP workstations via a GUI. There was a version of > NT 4.0 server > that permitted remote GUI administration. > > >Has Windows gotten to this capability that has been around with Unix > machines for years? > Windows has always had this capability IF you purchased > additional software > - PC Anywhere springs to mind, though there are other > packages designed > specifically for network/help desk support of users. > > > Joel Franklin > Network Analyst > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Thu Dec 27 15:09:05 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: paranoid security Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06558A@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Aha, so Mandrake does still have some glitches and gotchas in the paranoid setting. I found it to be a source of problems, even though it does some handy stuff. I would recommend trying to go down one level of security. Then run the InteractiveBastille, following the prompts. But first you should read all of the README files for Bastille. Bastille will take a paranoid approach by default shutting down services removing/renaming/disabling certain "dangerous" programs, etc. There may be one or two things you will want to change in that behavior, only you know best what you want turned on or off. I'd be glad to step through it with you if you'd like. I'll need to get the readme files for the current Bastille for that though. I ran it originally on a Mandrake 7.x install [still working quite well too]. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:58 AM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: paraniod security > > > Hi Folks, > > I have an indication from MandrakeExpert that the 'paranoid' security > setting disables the mouse server and several other things. The > MandrakeExpert recommends that I use InteractiveBastille to > chenge these > settings. Any ideas? I hope I can handle > InteractiveBastille. The machine > is only a workstation, so perhaps it won't be too bad. ANy > advise would be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Eric Gilliland > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From gerald at ethereal.com Thu Dec 27 15:15:44 2001 From: gerald at ethereal.com (Gerald Combs) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Remote Admin [OT] In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A63@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: There's also rdesktop (http://www.rdesktop.org). It's a Remote Desktop Protocol (aka Terminal Server) client for *nix. At work, I use VNC to administer our NT servers and rdesktop to administer our 2000 servers. On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Brian Densmore wrote: > You speaking of NT Terminal Server edition. And yes it works and it'll > cost you a wad of Microsoft Bucks. We use VNC; slow and somewhat sticky, > but free. There are many other 3rd party utilities, one from Australia > comes to mind [but I can't recall the name, but very fast and slick]. We > also use VNC because, I have to get in from home and I only use Windoze > at work. VNC is much nicer and faster when running on Linux. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Franklin, Joel [mailto:jdfranklin.public@moheck.com] > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:14 AM > > To: KC Linux User Group > > Subject: RE: Remote Admin [OT] > > > > > > >Forgive my MS naivety. > > Sure. I'll also forgive your naiveté of ritual Satanic abuse > > and axe murder, > > so long as you'll pardon my intimate knowledge of MS products... > > > > >But can Windows machines be administered remotely? > > You can remotely administer Windows 2000 servers via a GUI. > > You can remotely > > administer XP workstations via a GUI. There was a version of > > NT 4.0 server > > that permitted remote GUI administration. > > > > >Has Windows gotten to this capability that has been around with Unix > > machines for years? > > Windows has always had this capability IF you purchased > > additional software > > - PC Anywhere springs to mind, though there are other > > packages designed > > specifically for network/help desk support of users. > > > > > > Joel Franklin > > Network Analyst > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > > > > From jegilliland at hotmail.com Thu Dec 27 15:58:50 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: paranoid security Message-ID: I am planning to run the InteractiveBastille tonight after work. I'm not sure your confidence that I know best what should be turned on and off is deserved, but I'll try. I will read all the info I can find on Bastille before I start. I may send out a(nother) frantic call for help. Thanks, Eric >From: "Brian Densmore" >To: "Eric Gilliland" , >Subject: RE: paranoid security >Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:05:25 -0600 > >Aha, so Mandrake does still have some glitches and gotchas in the >paranoid setting. I found it to be a source of problems, even though it >does some handy stuff. I would recommend trying to go down one level of >security. Then run the InteractiveBastille, following the prompts. But >first you should read all of the README files for Bastille. Bastille >will take a paranoid approach by default shutting down services >removing/renaming/disabling certain "dangerous" programs, etc. There may >be one or two things you will want to change in that behavior, only you >know best what you want turned on or off. I'd be glad to step through it >with you if you'd like. I'll need to get the readme files for the >current Bastille for that though. I ran it originally on a Mandrake 7.x >install [still working quite well too]. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 7:58 AM > > To: kclug@kclug.org > > Subject: paraniod security > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > I have an indication from MandrakeExpert that the 'paranoid' security > > setting disables the mouse server and several other things. The > > MandrakeExpert recommends that I use InteractiveBastille to > > chenge these > > settings. Any ideas? I hope I can handle > > InteractiveBastille. The machine > > is only a workstation, so perhaps it won't be too bad. ANy > > advise would be > > greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eric Gilliland > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From erwin_k_r at yahoo.com Thu Dec 27 16:40:32 2001 From: erwin_k_r at yahoo.com (Robert Kennedy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Scanners Message-ID: <20011227164130.47342.qmail@web11706.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, I'm currently running Red Hat 7, but thinking about going to Suse 7.3. I'd like to know what scanners people are using with these distros. My price range is low to medium. I would prefer a SCSI interface to try to maintain compatibility with my Amiga systems. Also what digital cameras are you using? Best, Bob Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov Thu Dec 27 17:55:53 2001 From: Jason.Runyan at nitckc.usda.gov (JD Runyan) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: paraniod security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011227115637.A26109@katya> I don't use paranoid on my system. It is a pain for a workstation. I start by turning on IP Tables, and denying all network traffic, and then turning off services that the localhost is not using. I then use a much more relaxed security on the os, since the traffic is stopped before it reaches me. This is not to say that I don't secure things at all, or run as root all the time. I just think that paranoid security is ridiculous for a workstation. I couldn't use paranoid for someone else's workstation that isn't a techie, so I figure I should know how to protect it at a more transparent level. On Thu, Dec , at 07:58:17AM -0600, Eric Gilliland wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I have an indication from MandrakeExpert that the 'paranoid' security > setting disables the mouse server and several other things. The > MandrakeExpert recommends that I use InteractiveBastille to change these > settings. Any ideas? I hope I can handle InteractiveBastille. The machine > is only a workstation, so perhaps it won't be too bad. Any advise would be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Eric Gilliland > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com -- JD Runyan "You can't milk a point." David M. Kuehn, Ph.D. From jegilliland at hotmail.com Thu Dec 27 20:17:51 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: bastille setup concerns Message-ID: >See, this is the Microsoft Market - trust someone else to do it for >you, >trust that they didn't keep a copy of the key. > >What about reading throughout the Bastille docs, and looking at the >issues >they mention one at a time? Actually, I was planning to read the docs for Bastille before starting it. If I was really the MS market, I wouldn't even be putting up with the hassle of trying to learn linux, I'd just update to XP and go about my merry, clueless way, wouldn't I? I was only concerned about making the right choices, since my knowledge is limited at this point. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > > > I am planning to run the InteractiveBastille tonight after > > work. I'm not sure your confidence that I know best what > > should be turned on and off is deserved, but I'll try. > >See, this is the Microsoft Market - trust someone else to do it for you, >trust that they didn't keep a copy of the key. > >What about reading throughout the Bastille docs, and looking at the issues >they mention one at a time? > >I know that if this is your only PC, and it's front-line on the Internet >without a firewall or anything, you're taking a risk. That's why I try to >get people to learn Linux on a non-production non-essential box, so there's >no pressure to use configuration programs that "think for you", and you can >learn what you're doing and why. > >I know of a company that's trying to roll out VPN, and they're having Zone >Alarm installed on each system. Great for you or me - lots of features, >logging and reporting. But I'm dealing with people who can't follow three >lines of literal instructions every day, and putting Zone Alarm on their >computer is basically signing up for hours of service calls. It would be >more cost effective to give them each an SMC Barricade with remote admin >enabled. > >You should consider this - build a very basic Linux firewall, with the LRP >or following a HOWTO that will walk you through the steps one-by-one. Then >put your workstation behind it, and start looking at security HOWTO's and >stuff like Bastille, and figure out just how much of the admin you want to >turn over to some stranger in France or Redmond. > >The first thing I do is I rip out linuxconf, and anything else that has >it's >own config scheme that overwrites the settings of the standard, text-based >config files. Then _I_ set up xinetd, _I_ set up the firewall rules, and I >go one step at a time through securing what needs to be secured. > >Bastille is great, but if you read it carefully you'll find out that >there's >a bunch of stuff you don't need to worry about. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From jegilliland at hotmail.com Fri Dec 28 02:56:36 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: continuing mouse difficulties Message-ID: OK, I tried changing out mice, same problem. I set security back to 'low' using bastillechooser, but it still won't let me log in to KDE as root. I tried to run interactivebastille, but could not. When I got to the first screen, I tried to tab down to 'next', but when i got to the text box, it just stays in the text box and tabs over forever, never leaving. I am at a loss what to do now, any ideas? Thanks in advance, Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From svekan at mindspring.com Fri Dec 28 03:10:09 2001 From: svekan at mindspring.com (Sam Miller) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Bastille and mouse Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011227210230.00a70dc0@pop.mindspring.com> Just happened to see this in a usenet group. Might this help? >Go to www.bastille-linux.org. Go into the "UNDO" section and download the > > UndoBastille script. Make it executable and run it as root, it will return > > your system to how it was before Bastille. Or is this overkill? From hutchins at opus1.com Fri Dec 28 03:29:18 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: bastille setup concerns Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C9198@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > Actually, I was planning to read the docs for Bastille before > starting it. > If I was really the MS market, I wouldn't even be putting up > with the hassle > of trying to learn linux, I'd just update to XP and go about > my merry, > clueless way, wouldn't I? Ah, Eric, don't take it too hard, you're taking flack for some forerunners who espouse easy and simple configuration, an effortless transition from the borg to those who are here to help you... We're just goading you in the right direction, fairly confident that since you're here already you won't require much correction, and strong urging will appear as mere encouragement. Seriously, though, I'd start with something that didn't make too many security decisions for you. I'd keep backups, and be prepared to learn by experience. And I would avoid pre-packaged configurations and tools like webadmin and linuxconf. Now that would seem like hypocrisy to some elder purists, since I started with RedHat and moved to Mandrake, rather than Slackware and Debian. But still, I have regressed toward the more standard Unix configuration and security procedures, rather than allow the Microsoft cloners to take control for me. I think you'll be happiest in the end if you stick to the text-based control files , eschew all configuration utils, and make sure you know why you make each choice you make. From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Fri Dec 28 14:32:19 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: continuing mouse difficulties [and Bastille concerns] Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06558C@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > From: Eric Gilliland [mailto:jegilliland@hotmail.com] > > OK, I tried changing out mice, same problem. I set security > back to 'low' > using bastillechooser, but it still won't let me log in to > KDE as root. I > tried to run interactivebastille, but could not. Eric, Have you tried logging in to root from a virtual terminal screen (either from within KDE or one of the standard ones)? If you can do that, then I would concur with Sam, you need to undo the Bastille configuration and start over. Secondly, I don't recommend doing all of your configuration from editors and the command line [I will now be flamed by all the purists]. I didn't choose Linux because I could then spend the rest of my life configuring my system. I believe it is important to understand what a tool does if you are going to use it. [ Of course there are those people who still prefer to cut down trees, saw it into planks and make boxes out of them. I prefer to go to the wood store and by pre-dimensioned wood to build boxes, even though I know how to cut down and dimension wood into lumber :) ] I do recommend using Bastille and other tools to make configuration quick and easy. Unfortunately the downside is, that if you mess up getting back may be difficult and time consuming [since you may not know everything the tool altered]. Also there is still too little preparation for new converts. Bastille and linuxconf do a lot of things to a system. Bastille does create a log of what changes are made though. Linuxconf is just annoying [even if somewhat useful]. Eric you first order of business will be to get the root account working. If you can't log in from a terminal then you have changed the password to something unexpected. Try this: reboot the machine, when the boot prompt comes up enter init=1 this should get you into a root bash shell [it is possible you have configured your system to require a password here]. >From there you can change the root password and init 5 to get into a normal boot. Also, it is possible that Bastille disabled local root login, so you should also try to su into the root account from your personal account in a VT. Hope this is at least minimally useful. Brian From kujayhawkbb at yahoo.com Fri Dec 28 14:43:15 2001 From: kujayhawkbb at yahoo.com (Rusty) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: xinetd Message-ID: <20011228144416.67985.qmail@web14601.mail.yahoo.com> Can anyone point me to a source for understanding how to work with xinetd when one is only barely acquainted with inetd as it is? The little bit of configuration I felt like I understood is now gone, and I feel kinda extra lost. (I only have occasional contact with Linux these days at all, I have no home system anymore so I have to do a fresh install everytime I want to try and learn anything (on a spare machine at work)...and have maybe a couple of days at a time exposure. Really sucks...any suggestions?) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Fri Dec 28 15:15:29 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: xinetd Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06558D@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> You need a home system? $25 could get you a old Pentium box from a computer surplus place. More for a monitor. I could probably help you out with an old box, may need a few things, can't help you with a monitor though. One approach to xinetd is to save your inetd.conf and use itox to convert it to a xinetd conf file. sources of info: http://www.xinetd.org/sample.shtml http://www.xinetd.org/faq.html I haven't converted yet, it is one my to-do list though, so I can't help much. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Rusty [mailto:kujayhawkbb@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:44 AM > To: kclug@kclug.org > Subject: xinetd > > > Can anyone point me to a source for understanding how to work > with xinetd when one is only barely acquainted with inetd as it > is? The little bit of configuration I felt like I understood is > now gone, and I feel kinda extra lost. > > (I only have occasional contact with Linux these days at all, I > have no home system anymore so I have to do a fresh install > everytime I want to try and learn anything (on a spare machine > at work)...and have maybe a couple of days at a time exposure. > Really sucks...any suggestions?) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com Fri Dec 28 15:31:01 2001 From: Marvin.Bellamy at innovision.com (Marvin Bellamy) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home Message-ID: <3C2C907C.6010405@innovision.com> Anyone running a file server at home? I'm thinking about setting one up and I'd like to know how much iron I'll need. Cost is a big consideration. From aaron at aarons.net Fri Dec 28 16:30:09 2001 From: aaron at aarons.net (Aaron) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home In-Reply-To: <3C2C907C.6010405@innovision.com> Message-ID: <001c01c18fbca71f2d1@aaronmhzggcto3> I'm running three Linux file servers at home. One is a P5-233 and the others are 200's. If all you're doing is using them for storage, you don't need much. Aaron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Bellamy" To: "Kclug" Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:32 AM Subject: file server for home > Anyone running a file server at home? I'm thinking about setting one up > and I'd like to know how much iron I'll need. Cost is a big consideration. > > > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Fri Dec 28 16:40:48 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06558F@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Except Harddisk space! I'd recommend the biggest fastest HD your budget allows. I'd also recommend a SCSI HD. And use ext3 or some other kind of journaled file system, and use RAID. So you'll really want two of the biggest fastest HDs your budget allows. Of course you could get by with just one, but still use a journaling file system. They are just so much more resilient, there no reason to use anything but. All of my new systems run a small read only boot partition using ext2, and the rest is reiser journaled. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron [mailto:aaron@aarons.net] > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:30 AM > To: Marvin Bellamy; Kclug > Subject: Re: file server for home > > > I'm running three Linux file servers at home. One is a P5-233 and the > others are 200's. If all you're doing is using them for > storage, you don't > need much. > > Aaron > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marvin Bellamy" > To: "Kclug" > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:32 AM > Subject: file server for home > > > > Anyone running a file server at home? I'm thinking about > setting one up > > and I'd like to know how much iron I'll need. Cost is a big > consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Fri Dec 28 19:36:19 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: xinetd and dream machines Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065592@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> AMD are the fastest CPUs on the market. Ignore the CPU speed, meaningless number in today's chips. AMD chips blow away Intel in all tests these days, provided you compare comparable chips. SDRAM is cheap and likely to stay so. If you get any CPU over 1GHz you'd better be thinking about DDR or RDRAM. RDRAM is likely to outstrip DDR ... in the future (not until 2003). DDR 2700 is faster than anything else on the market up to >50% faster than SDRAM, 5-10% than 1066 DRDRAM If you are going to be doing gaming go for DDR, if you want price/performance you could try 150 SDRAM (speed difference will be noticeable) 400MHz vs. 266MHz not even a comparison If you are going to RDRAM you'd better get 533 MHz that 400MHz is 200MHz (on each transition) a 266MHz will smoke a 400 MHz Remember this is an apples and oranges thing. RDRAM 400MHz bus ~= 200 MHz DRAM bus (now this is based on reality not theory. Theoretically the 400 MHz RDRAM bus is actually capable of attaining this speed. Hasn't happened.) PC800 RDRAM ~= 1600 DDR [BTW 1600 DDR = 200MHz bus(i.e 100 *2), 2100 = 266, 2400 = 300, 2700 = 332] Right now there is a tech slump. So it's a buyers market. That slump is starting to turn around from what I see, but slowly. Things can change fast though. Another earthquake in Japan and prices will sky-rocket. They're about due. Just gut instinct, YMMV. DDR and RDRAM are neck and neck, DDR slightly less. DDR is about 2x DRAM. That's about all the insight I have. Enjoy, Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Rusty [mailto:kujayhawkbb@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 11:48 AM > To: Brian Densmore > Subject: RE: xinetd > > > Really? What makes you say that? Perhaps I should start buying a > piece here and there and just put it all together later? I'm > still torn between AMD and Intel for the chip....and using DDR > vs. SDRAM or (gulp!) RDRAM.... > I mean, a 400Mhz motherboard does have its allure vs. a 266Mhz > with AMD. I haven't checked prices for awhile so I'm not sure > how much difference there is in cost..or performance. Any > insights? > > Rusty > > --- Brian Densmore wrote: > > Tell me about it! Prices are so damn cheap now, but I fear > > they won't > > last much longer. > > > > Brian > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > From hutchins at opus1.com Fri Dec 28 21:19:41 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06558F@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <001b01c18fe5bd16dd07960c0a@uhc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Densmore" > Except Harddisk space! I'd recommend the biggest fastest HD your budget > allows. I'd also recommend a SCSI HD. Why would you pay double or triple the price for a SCSI device? ATAPI works great, and you can even do RAID these days. SCSI is for "price is no object" projects. If he's using RAID, then he'd be getting "the three biggest..." etc. Better low-cost strategy is to get what you can afford and use a CD-ROM backup package until you can afford a second one (for RAID mirror or manual backup). From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Fri Dec 28 22:02:27 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065594@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> I've got to start choosing my words more carefully. I was speaking of software RAID. Software RAID could be done on a single HD (not that I recommend it in any way). SCSI is not that much more expensive than ATAPI. I said SCSI because of speed [10-15K RPM], up to 2x as fast as ATAPI can get (money is no object argument is no longer valid). And I said recommend, not must have. We are talking about a file server, and I don't know what he is planning on using it for. My own system uses a single 20GB 7200 RPM ATAPI HD, with no RAID configured, running the reiser journaling filesystem. So you see my budget doesn't always allow me to follow my own advice. But he asked for recommendations, and I stand by my recommendation. 2 SCSI HD as big and as fast as can be gotten ext3 or reiserfs filesystem software RAID 5 100 -> 200+ MHZ CPU 32 -> 128+ MB RAM el cheapo video card (or built in) el cheapo atapi cd (2x good enough) tape backup (if any money left) no sound card floppy borrowed mouse, keyboard, and monitor > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins [mailto:hutchins@opus1.com] > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 3:20 PM > To: Brian Densmore; Kclug > Subject: Re: file server for home > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Densmore" > > > > Except Harddisk space! I'd recommend the biggest fastest HD > your budget > > allows. I'd also recommend a SCSI HD. > > Why would you pay double or triple the price for a SCSI > device? ATAPI works > great, and you can even do RAID these days. SCSI is for "price is no > object" projects. > > If he's using RAID, then he'd be getting "the three > biggest..." etc. Better > low-cost strategy is to get what you can afford and use a > CD-ROM backup > package until you can afford a second one (for RAID mirror or manual > backup). > > > > From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Fri Dec 28 22:44:39 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065596@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Rusty [mailto:kujayhawkbb@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 4:14 PM > To: Brian Densmore > Subject: RE: file server for home > > > What is "Lhd"? I'm not familiar with that designation. Lhd = Linux hardware database http://lhd.zdnet.com/ > If you want to do RAID 5 (software, hardware either) you still > need 3 drives...the only RAID I know of that will do 2 is RAID > 1. You can do RAID 0 on 2, but there's no recovery or fault > tolerance, so really shouldn't be called "RAID" which "implies" > recovery capabilities. > I'm sorry not RAID 5, I meant RAID 1. > > What kind of price range are we talking for ABit boards? Do you > have a reputable online supplier? (like computergeeks.com or > something?) > ABit KT7A RAID $140ish - ABit KR7A Raid DDR $220ish No place in particular. I use pricewatch http://www.pricewatch.com/ to find prices, then reseller ratings to see if they're any good. http://www.resellerratings.com/vendrank.html Brian From hutchins at opus1.com Sat Dec 29 02:15:56 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C919B@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Densmore [mailto:DensmoreB@ctbsonline.com] > I was speaking of software RAID. Software > RAID could be done on a single HD ... I think I've heard of worse ideas. Give me a couple of days, I'm sure I can come up with one. Sheesh, wish I was celebrating the holidays as distanced as you are... From lists at kc.rr.com Sat Dec 29 02:55:47 2001 From: lists at kc.rr.com (Monty J. Harder) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065594@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <003701c1901477d4a904581a41@Dexter> "Brian Densmore" wrote: > 2 SCSI HD as big and as fast as can be gotten > ext3 or reiserfs filesystem > software RAID 5 Please explain how you do RAID 5 on two hard drives. Use additional sheets if necessary. From jegilliland at hotmail.com Sat Dec 29 06:10:29 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: now I have really screwed up Message-ID: I just fixed the mouse problem that I had talked about by uninstalling the mouse using mousedrake and then reinstalling it. After doing this I ran InteractiveBastille. After running InteractiveBastille, I tried to get my mouse wheel working and caused the same mouse problem over again. I now cannot get into root mode to run mousedrake again, I think because of changes I made in bastille. I cannot log on as root, and when I try to su in a terminal I get a 'file limit exceeded'. I am afraid I have really messed up this time. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Eric _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From jegilliland at hotmail.com Sat Dec 29 08:02:57 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: a problem with bastille-linux Message-ID: Dear Sir, I am having a problem with Bastille-Linux. I don't know if you provide support, but I thought it would be worth a shot. First my system. I have a dual boot system running Mandrake Linux 8.1 and Win ME. The computer is a Dell Domension 8100 Pentium 4 1.3 with 256 megs of RAM. It is just my home computer and is not a server or anything. I use it to write documents, play games, and surf the web. A few days ago I started having problems with my mouse, which I fixed by uninstalling and reinstalling it. After doing this I ran InteractiveBastille. I made mostly the default choices. After doing this I tried to test the firewall by doing /etc/rc.d/init.d/bastille-firewall start and got an error message saying there was no such file (many times). I tried to fix my mouse (the wheel was not working) and inadvertantly caused my previous mouse problem to reoccur. When I tried to start a terminal as su I could not. When I started a normal terminal and attempted to become root with su i got a 'maximum file limit reached' error and was not allowed. I can now not log on as root. When running InteractiveBastille I had selected the 'maximum file size thing'. I can onlt assume the inability to log on as root is related to bastille. In a related issue, I had taken the script to reverse bastille's changes from your website, but I have not been able to make it work. I could not even make it work previously when I could log in as root. When it tries to run I get numerous syntax and other errors. Can you tell me how to reverse the bastille settings while not logged in as root? Thank you very much for your time and for your help. Good day, Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From s_p_hildreth at yahoo.com Sat Dec 29 16:42:12 2001 From: s_p_hildreth at yahoo.com (Steven Hildreth) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Quickcam Express In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C067A60@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <002e01c19088a5c7960/home/hald/bin/make-mbox.bash300a8c0@steven> I have a "Quickcam Express" as reported when I am booted into Windows - device manager, and also dual boot into Mandrake 8.1 and it works. Mandrake places an icon on the users desktop XView (or something I cant remember exactly) and it is app that displays the video coming from that camera. Oh and mine is USB. Hope that helps. Regards, Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Densmore" To: "KCLUG (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: RE: Quickcam Express > Don't bet on it! > > http://www.cs.duke.edu/~reynolds/cqcam/faq.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rankin, James - KC [mailto:James.Rankin-KC@Gateway.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:07 PM > > To: KCLUG (E-mail) > > Subject: Quickcam Express > > > > > > I would like to know if a Logitech Quickcam Express USB will work with > > Mandrake Linux 8.1? > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From thammitt at kc.rr.com Sat Dec 29 17:27:20 2001 From: thammitt at kc.rr.com (Tony Hammitt) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Video capture? Message-ID: <3C2DFC12.B9DB7960@kc.rr.com> Hey all, Just wondering if anyone out there has done any video capture on Linux. I have done things like this on a Mac before but I don't have any idea whether it's even possible on Linux. I don't really want to get a lesser OS just to convert some home movies... Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Tony From Jim at itdepends.com Sat Dec 29 18:58:00 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Video capture? In-Reply-To: <3C2DFC12.B9DB7960@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: <0c1a60458181dc1FE7@mail7.kc.rr.com> And I like to know if anyone has gotten a IEEE1394 (Firewire) card to work with a digital video camera. Mandrake doesn't recognize my 1394 card. I have not really spent a great deal of time with it, but I thought I would jump in since Tony brought it up. From what I've read, video capture and digital video transfer are two different things. Anyone out there a video expert? Thanks for bringing this up Tony. Happy New Year, Jim On Saturday 29 December 2001 11:23 am, Tony Hammitt wrote: > Hey all, > > Just wondering if anyone out there has done any video capture on Linux. > I have done things like this on a Mac before but I don't have any idea > whether it's even possible on Linux. I don't really want to get a > lesser OS just to convert some home movies... > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > TIA, > > Tony > > From zscoundrel at kc.rr.com Sat Dec 29 21:42:28 2001 From: zscoundrel at kc.rr.com (zscoundrel) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home In-Reply-To: <3C2C907C.6010405@innovision.com> Message-ID: <3C2E38E2.1010602@kc.rr.com> I am running a 66mhz 486sx made by Gateway about 10 years ago. It has 48mb ram and a 20gb hdd and CD-rom. I don't use it for much, mostly online backups and a test platform for web server applications - and testing new software/OS installs before I load it on my the machine I use for day-to-day stuff. I got it from a friend for free and added the memory, HD and CD-rom. My file serving needs are small so it works very well. All of the advice I have seen so far has been pretty good, but since you didn't really specify the intended function, it is pretty tough to make accurate suggestions. For instance, servicing video or audio files would require a different setup than if you just want to store email packets for 3 or 4 email accounts for your family. Marvin Bellamy wrote: > Anyone running a file server at home? I'm thinking about setting one up > and I'd like to know how much iron I'll need. Cost is a big consideration. > > > > From dfallin at kc.rr.com Sat Dec 29 22:07:03 2001 From: dfallin at kc.rr.com (Daryl) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Video capture? In-Reply-To: <3C2DFC12.B9DB7960@kc.rr.com> Message-ID: Tony - As a matter of fact, I just got my video Capture Card ( Hauppage winTV ) working this week. It is pretty awesome stuff. It took me some time to get it going but one of the documents that helped me the most was the http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/VCR-HOWTO-3.html document. I had the video capture card laying around and then I read that Tivo actually is using Linux. So now I have my computer setup so that I can record anything off the tv using vcr-1.09. I record in DivX format and then use xine 0.9.7 to view them. I am using Mandrake 8.1 which I might add automatically detected the video capture card and setup up everything perfectly. Mandrake installed Xawtv and the video device which worked without me having to do anything. I was very impressed with this because I had jacked around with this video capture card in windows for a few weeks about 3 or 4 months ago and had given up. Thank the gods that I happened across a tivo article on slashdot which sparked my interest in getting my video capture card to work in Linux. Mandrakes install is second to none as far as I can tell. Anyway.. no sense in preaching to the choir. Video capture is working great for me. :) Let me know if you have any questions on my setup. later... Daryl On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, Tony Hammitt wrote: > Hey all, > > Just wondering if anyone out there has done any video capture on Linux. > I have done things like this on a Mac before but I don't have any idea > whether it's even possible on Linux. I don't really want to get a > lesser OS just to convert some home movies... > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > TIA, > > Tony > > > From jegilliland at hotmail.com Sun Dec 30 05:21:35 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: win XP and mandrake 8.1 dual boot (again) Message-ID: Hello Everyone, OK I solved my problem in the most drastic way possible. I upgraded to Windows XP (let the flaming begin) as a clean install, reformatting the hard drive. There is only one partition on the HD, the one XP is in. I have not yet reinstalled Mandrake 8.1. I am a little worried; it seems some people are having trouble doing this, from what I am reading on the web while doing research. I must have windows usable until I finish my thesis. I may wait until finishing my thesis before attempting to install mandrake 8.1 again. Has anyone out there installed mandrake 8.1 on a single win xp partition? I would appreciate any advice on this topic. Thanks, Eric Gilliland J. Eric Gilliland jegilliland@hotmail.com Meet it is I set it down, that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain. Hamlet Act 1 Scene 5 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From hutchins at opus1.com Sun Dec 30 19:52:05 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Video capture? Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C91A3@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Daryl [mailto:dfallin@kc.rr.com] > As a matter of fact, I just got my video Capture Card ( > Hauppage winTV )working this week. What's your other hardware? And what's the filesize/hour when you're recording? From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Mon Dec 31 15:11:07 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065598@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Monty J. Harder [mailto:lists@kc.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:57 PM > To: Brian Densmore; kclug@kclug.org > Subject: Re: file server for home > > > "Brian Densmore" wrote: > > > 2 SCSI HD as big and as fast as can be gotten > > ext3 or reiserfs filesystem > > software RAID 5 > > Please explain how you do RAID 5 on two hard drives. Use additional > sheets if necessary. > > If you had read a little further I corrected myself (in a further post), I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. Please forgive me. ;') Yes, I do know that RAID 4 and 5 require 3 harddisks. RAID 1 requires 2, and RAID 0 could be done with one. Why? I don't know, ask the Marquis de Sade. Some people are just into pain and suffering. From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Mon Dec 31 17:05:48 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: USB Cameras [was RE: Quickcam Express] Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06559B@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> On a slightly different vector, anyone using USB to connect digital cameras? I got a Canon A10 1.3 MP digital camera (with USB port, Compact Flash memory card) for XMas and am getting ready to try it out. I also have a USB card reader that is apparently supported (somewhat). I don't see the camera in the list of unsupported cameras anywhere, but also it is not listed as supported. It is a low-end digital camera. Regards, Brian From jfowler at westrope.com Mon Dec 31 19:49:31 2001 From: jfowler at westrope.com (Jeremy Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C065594@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: > I've got to start choosing my words more carefully. I was speaking of > software RAID. Software RAID could be done on a single HD (not that I > recommend it in any way). Whoa there! I'm going to have to give you some shit about that statement. The very concept of RAID requires you to have more that one disk. However, you could mirror two partitions on a single drive just so that you had two copies of something. That way if you were about to change something on a really important production machine and wanted a golden parachute to bail you out if in case something were to go wrong. Then you would just stop mirroring and perform the operation just on one partition, if all goes well remirror. If it doesn't, boot off the unmodified partition and your back where you started. However, this wouldn't offer any performance advantages. Actually it would reduce performance by half since it has to write everything twice. > SCSI is not that much more expensive than ATAPI. Hogwash! You can get an 80GB 7200rpm UltraDMA100 (or UltraDMA133 I think it is now) for $160 The same size for an Ultra160 SCSI version will cost you $500 (Going off prices from www.pricewatch.com) Then lets not forget the controller. A basic Adaptec 19160 controller will cost you an additional $150 if your motherboard doesn't already have a scsi controller built in. (Not many do) > I said SCSI because of speed [10-15K RPM], up to 2x as fast as > ATAPI can get (money is no object argument is no longer valid). And I > said recommend, not must have. We are talking about a file server, and I > don't know what he is planning on using it for. A file server for home.... Home being the key word there. Now even if he does have cable or DSL, his bottleneck isn't going to be the hard drive speed. It's going to be the internet connection he has. The "money is no object argument" is still very much valid. I mean, if you can get your company to foot the bill, go ahead and spring for the SCSI. However, unless your going to be doing some really freaky shit, you won't notice the difference in a real world environment. I would spend the money on an IDE RAID controller; however, getting them to work with distros out of the box has been, from personal experience, quite frustrating. Promise controllers are ok, if your using one of the distro versions their drivers support (and forget about ever using newer kernels because promise doesn't distribute the source with their drivers, and they don't update them very often). There are open source drivers out there, but they aren't usually compiled by default into distro kernels. Well, not Redhat for sure anyway. It usually requires an install onto a single drive first, then recompile support for the controller, and then move the data on over. From DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com Mon Dec 31 20:43:21 2001 From: DensmoreB at ctbsonline.com (Brian Densmore) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home Message-ID: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06559D@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> > > I've got to start choosing my words more carefully. I was > speaking of > > software RAID. Software RAID could be done on a single HD > (not that I > > recommend it in any way). > > Whoa there! I'm going to have to give you some shit about > that statement. The > very concept of RAID requires you to have more that one disk. > However, you could > mirror two partitions on a single drive just so that you had > two copies of > something. That way if you were about to change something on > a really important > production machine and wanted a golden parachute to bail you > out if in case > something were to go wrong. Then you would just stop > mirroring and perform the > operation just on one partition, if all goes well remirror. > If it doesn't, boot > off the unmodified partition and your back where you started. > However, this > wouldn't offer any performance advantages. Actually it would > reduce performance > by half since it has to write everything twice. Exactly, why I said I don't recommend it. It seems nobody is reading the entire comments here. I said you could. I didn't say you should. In fact you shouldn't, but you "CAN". > > > SCSI is not that much more expensive than ATAPI. > > Hogwash! You can get an 80GB 7200rpm UltraDMA100 (or > UltraDMA133 I think it is > now) for $160 > > The same size for an Ultra160 SCSI version will cost you $500 > (Going off prices > from www.pricewatch.com) 37 GB IBM Ultrastar SCSI $159 15K RPM 40 GB Maxtor $85 7200 RPM 2x speed 2x price. From pricewatch. To me that is comparable prices. Of course there might be a cheaper model at 7200 (I didn't see any, but I do have prejudices against certain manufacturers) Also there may be a widening gap as size increases. I don't really watch it that closely. So if I seem ignorant please forgive me, but this is the way I see it. My own SCSI system (not in use right now) is used primarily for airfoil design (aka 3d modeling) and makes extensive reads and writes to the disk. So I can notice the speed differences between 7200 RPM and 15K RPM. > > Then lets not forget the controller. A basic Adaptec 19160 > controller will cost > you an additional $150 if your motherboard doesn't already have a scsi > controller built in. (Not many do) Yes good SCSI controllers will cost you some money. Even bad SCSI controllers will cost you some money. > > > I said SCSI because of speed [10-15K RPM], up to 2x as fast as > > ATAPI can get (money is no object argument is no longer > valid). And I > > said recommend, not must have. We are talking about a file > server, and I > > don't know what he is planning on using it for. > > A file server for home.... Home being the key word there. Now > even if he does > have cable or DSL, his bottleneck isn't going to be the hard > drive speed. It's > going to be the internet connection he has. The "money is no > object argument" is > still very much valid. I mean, if you can get your company to > foot the bill, go > ahead and spring for the SCSI. However, unless your going to > be doing some > really freaky shit, you won't notice the difference in a real > world environment. Well, that depends on what you call real freaky sh**. We are talking about a "file server". So I would guess that it would spend most of it's time serving up files. Therefore most of the time the hard drives are being accessed and data transmitted via the network. I didn't see any reference to internet in there. Like I said, that was my recommendation. I stand by it. Although, I realize that not very many people are going to get a SCSI system for a budget home file server, because, you can get twice the size for the same price (even if it is half the speed). I have 1 SCSI drive myself, it is used for a special purpose machine and it is absolutely necessary for my purpose. It takes me 30 - 45 minutes to render a single foil. It takes 1 - 2 hours on an ATAPI disk. Even I can notice that difference! But then airfoil design is kind of freaky sh**! I am also working on a rocket engine design (yes I am an amateur rocket scientist). ;') 'nuf said, Brian P.S. Thanks for the stimulating discussion. From jegilliland at hotmail.com Mon Dec 31 20:49:51 2001 From: jegilliland at hotmail.com (Eric Gilliland) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: mandrake's drakedisk and NTFS filesystems Message-ID: Hello Everybody, Can Mandrake's DrakeDisc repartition a drive that is in NTFS filesystem format? I have heard that it cannot. Anyone know of a good repartitioning program? Thanks, Eric Gilliland _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From dfallin at kc.rr.com Mon Dec 31 21:03:57 2001 From: dfallin at kc.rr.com (Daryl) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Video capture? In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C91A3@CAVERN> Message-ID: I have a VP6 MotherBoard with Dual Pent. 700 MHz Procs (PGA), 256M ECC SDRAM, Adaptec 2940 UW SCSI Card, Plextor 12/10/32S CD-Writer, Matrox Millineum Video, 3Com NIC, 60 Gig IDE 7200RPM Maxtor Drive. Hmmm... Thats pretty much the basics. After praising Mandrake in my last post I now have noticed a problem. I can mount my Plextor Drive, but cdrecord doesnt recognize it. I tried to do the "cdrecord -scanbus" command and it doesnt find it. Yet I can mount the SCSI device /dev/scd0 ... very strange. if anyone has an idea on that let me know. Thanks Daryl On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Daryl [mailto:dfallin@kc.rr.com] > > > As a matter of fact, I just got my video Capture Card ( > > Hauppage winTV )working this week. > > What's your other hardware? And what's the filesize/hour when you're > recording? > > > From hutchins at opus1.com Mon Dec 31 21:57:47 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Video capture? Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C91AF@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Daryl [mailto:dfallin@kc.rr.com] > I have ... Dual Pent. 700 MHz Procs (PGA), 256M > ECC SDRAM ... So we're talking some serious processing power here. Sorry, no idea on the Plextor problem - Plextor lists cdrecord's compatibility as "in progress". From dustind at moon-lite.com Mon Dec 31 22:10:29 2001 From: dustind at moon-lite.com (Dustin Decker) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: file server for home In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06559D@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Brian Densmore wrote: > > > SCSI is not that much more expensive than ATAPI. > > > > Hogwash! You can get an 80GB 7200rpm UltraDMA100 (or > > UltraDMA133 I think it is > > now) for $160 > > > > The same size for an Ultra160 SCSI version will cost you $500 > > (Going off prices > > from www.pricewatch.com) > 37 GB IBM Ultrastar SCSI $159 15K RPM > 40 GB Maxtor $85 7200 RPM > > 2x speed 2x price. From pricewatch. To me that is comparable prices. Of > course there might be a cheaper model at 7200 (I didn't see any, but I > do have prejudices against certain manufacturers) It's quite obvious that the numbers you're using to substantiate SCSI as being as cheap as ATA/IDE are showing nearly 2X higher cost for SCSI in the total disk space department. You're comparing a 37 and 40 Gigabyte SCSI drive price with that of 80 Gigabytes IDE. The truth is, the numbers for even the ATA100 at 80 Gigabytes are high. Right here in Overland Park you can pick up 40GB drives for $95.00, and 80GB would be something like $140.00. You are again forgetting to factor in the cost of a decent SCSI controller too. If you buy a whiz-bang drive(s), better give it(them) a whiz-bang controller too. > Also there may be a widening gap as size increases. I don't really watch > it that closely. So if I seem ignorant please forgive me, but this is > the way I see it. My own SCSI system (not in use right now) is used > primarily for airfoil design (aka 3d modeling) and makes extensive reads > and writes to the disk. So I can notice the speed differences between > 7200 RPM and 15K RPM. Let's also remember for the sake of disagreement that SCSI offers other features that you don't get with IDE, such as sequential access. If the 7200 to 15K RPM differences you have expereinced were merely between oh let's say 7200 RPM IDE drives and a 15K RPM SCSI drive then I would expect the performance increase you feel is the result of this, not so much the 15K RPM issue. (Although _obviously_ this helps out, and I'm merely assuming you have done what I said - which could be utter BS.) Want kick ass performance? Check out the new Ultra 320 SCSI drives. (And I thought my Ultra160's were hot!) Now you're talking about some serious jack... it is indeed quite nice to get your employer to foot the bill when most of this stuff is a paycheck or two for most folks. Dustin Decker -- "Every now and then, when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether." -- Hunter S. Thompson, "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" From dfallin at kc.rr.com Mon Dec 31 22:18:35 2001 From: dfallin at kc.rr.com (Daryl) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Video capture? In-Reply-To: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C91AF@CAVERN> Message-ID: I have heard of people running the video capture stuff on lesser Hardware, as long as that is the only thing you are doing. I can capture video with low frame loss and still do other things at the same time. As for the Plextor, well it was working when I had RedHat, which I had to do all the configuration myself. Mandrake has configured it, but for some reason cdrecord doesnt like something about the configuration. More on that in another post. On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Daryl [mailto:dfallin@kc.rr.com] > > > I have ... Dual Pent. 700 MHz Procs (PGA), 256M > > ECC SDRAM ... > > So we're talking some serious processing power here. > > Sorry, no idea on the Plextor problem - Plextor lists cdrecord's > compatibility as "in progress". > > > > From Jim at itdepends.com Mon Dec 31 22:27:34 2001 From: Jim at itdepends.com (Jim Herrmann) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: USB Cameras [was RE: Quickcam Express] In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06559B@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: <0a4391627221fc1FE5@mail5.kc.rr.com> Try http://www.mandrakeuser.org/docs/hardware/hbits6.html On Monday 31 December 2001 11:02 am, Brian Densmore wrote: > On a slightly different vector, anyone using USB to connect digital > cameras? I got a Canon A10 1.3 MP digital camera (with USB port, Compact > Flash memory card) for XMas and am getting ready to try it out. I also > have a USB card reader that is apparently supported (somewhat). I don't > see the camera in the list of unsupported cameras anywhere, but also it > is not listed as supported. It is a low-end digital camera. > > Regards, > Brian > > From dfallin at kc.rr.com Mon Dec 31 22:28:28 2001 From: dfallin at kc.rr.com (Daryl) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Plextor SCSI CDR and cdrecord problem, was RE: Video capture? In-Reply-To: <39CF78DBFE15E141A9FE7DE61AE74D1C06559E@ctbs-hq1.hq.ctbs.net> Message-ID: dmesg looks great. it sees the drive and I can in fact mount the Plextor CD drive, I just cant write to it using cdrecord. dmesg ==== SCSI subsystem driver Revision: 1.00 scsi0 : Adaptec AIC7XXX EISA/VLB/PCI SCSI HBA DRIVER, Rev 6.2.1 aic7870: Single Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-R PX-W1210S Rev: 1.00 Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02 ==== No good information in the system logs Here is the output from 'cdrecord -scanbus' (as root) ==== #cdrecord -scanbus Cdrecord 1.10 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 Jrg Schilling ./cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open SCSI driver. ./cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make sure you are root ==== Here is the output from 'cdrecord -scanbus -dev 0,4,0' (my Plextor is Scsi 0, target 4, lun 0 ) ==== #cdrecord -scanbus -dev 0,4,0 Cdrecord 1.10 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 Jrg Schilling scsidev: '0,4,0' scsibus: 0 target: 4 lun: 0 ./cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/pg4'. Cannot open SCSI driver. ./cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make sure you are root. ==== Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. This was working at one time with Mandrake 8.1, but this is a new install ( after a fateful disk crash ) Thanks Daryl On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Brian Densmore wrote: > Hmm... have you looked at the output of dmesg? My own CD-RW stopped > working when I went from Mandrake 7.x to 8.0. But it is an ATAPI > interface (internal SCSI, so I must use the ide-scsi driver). Any clues > in the system logs? > > > > > > > It is SCSI > > > > On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Brian Densmore wrote: > > > > > SCSI interface or IDE interface? I'm not familiar with > > Plextor, but the > > > designation looks like SCSI. > > > > > > > > > > > I have a VP6 MotherBoard with Dual Pent. 700 MHz Procs (PGA), 256M > > > > ECC SDRAM, Adaptec 2940 UW SCSI Card, Plextor 12/10/32S > > > > CD-Writer, Matrox > > > > Millineum Video, 3Com NIC, 60 Gig IDE 7200RPM Maxtor Drive. > > > > > > > > Hmmm... Thats pretty much the basics. > > > > > > > > After praising Mandrake in my last post I now have noticed a > > > > problem. I > > > > can mount my Plextor Drive, but cdrecord doesnt recognize it. > > > > I tried to > > > > do the "cdrecord -scanbus" command and it doesnt find it. > > > > Yet I can mount > > > > the SCSI device /dev/scd0 ... very strange. if anyone has an > > > > idea on that > > > > let me know. Thanks > > > > > > > > Daryl > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Daryl [mailto:dfallin@kc.rr.com] > > > > > > > > > > > As a matter of fact, I just got my video Capture Card ( > > > > > > Hauppage winTV )working this week. > > > > > > > > > > What's your other hardware? And what's the filesize/hour > > > > when you're > > > > > recording? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > majordomo@kclug.org > > > > > > > > > > > > From hutchins at opus1.com Mon Dec 31 22:53:23 2001 From: hutchins at opus1.com (Jonathan Hutchins) Date: Wed Aug 25 10:10:51 2004 Subject: Plextor SCSI CDR and cdrecord problem, was RE: Video capture? Message-ID: <1018BE06CC74D5118FA80060970F698C91B0@CAVERN> > -----Original Message----- > From: Daryl [mailto:dfallin@kc.rr.com] > ./cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open > '/dev/pg4'. Cannot open SCSI driver. Just a WAG, but could it be that cdrecord is not fully installed?