KCLUG?!?!?!

[Aaron Norton]

I know what you mean. I too have had to support Microsoft products, and
in fact run it for some things (mainly EverQuest). I do understand that
a lot of people don't have the time or even want to RTFM's or tinker.

I too have a very busy work schedule. I have over 200 UNIX systems I
have to support, not to mention the countless systems that use my backup
solutions.

Once again, I just thought it was funny that a LUG would endorse a
Microsoft product so obviously. If you would like to at least make it a
little less obvious I can give you a couple of pointers:

1. Give the pages titles - If you look at the title bar on your browser
when you are at the home page, you will see "New Page 1" this is the
default page name within frontpage.

2. remove a couple of meta entries from the pages - 
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
I'm pretty sure that these are not needed for anything and they are
another dead giveaway.

Just thought I would give you a couple of tips. I don't know if anyone
else really even cares about this, but if you do want to make it less
obvious, this would definitely help.

***************************************************
Aaron Norton		System Programmer II
Sprint			Network Systems Management
***************************************************

Rich Minear wrote:
> 
> No offence taken....however, I think you are being fairly short sighted
> about Microsoft....
> 
> Don'g get me wrong, I have no love for the company...but some Microsoft
> Products are good...
> 
> Microsoft Exchange server has been a very good, stable email/scheduling
> system for our company....
> If you use DHCP, WINS is a very good resource....it works very well.
> There are others....
> 
> AMC runs Digital Unix (now Compaq), Solaris x86, Linux, NT 4.0, & Citrix
> Winframe.
> 
> Most of the servers that our normal end users see on a daily basis are NT.
> For file and print, or Exchange, they are fairly stable, and have good
> uptime.  Not as good as our Unix boxes, but they aren't as big either.
> 
> As for being too lazy or stupid to learn something or to RTFM's....not
> everyone wants or needs to do these things...
> I have 300 end users just in our corporate office that could not give a damn
> about RTFM or learning something.  They have a job to do, and they could
> care less whether their product was open source, Microsoft, or any
> other...they just want the damn thing to work.
> 
> Myself, I have 10 Unix servers (6 of which run high end Oracle databases), 2
> OpenVMS systems (VAXs for the old guys!), 4 Linux boxes, 15 NT servers, and
> 227 Cisco Routers to keep up and running.  While doing that with a team of 6
> people, I have 5 children, a wife who is a Senior at KU, my own classes for
> finishing my degree, and my own training classes (Cisco IOS, NT 2000, Perl,
> and shell programming).  I don't have time to RTFM either....
> 
> Long story short...Linux is wonderful! I love it...but I live in a Microsoft
> dominated world (at least right now). So being able to do both keeps me in
> demand in the job market.
> 
> Rich
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aaron Norton [mailto:anorton98 at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 2:19 PM
> To: rminear at linuxstart.com
> Subject: Re: kclug - KCLUG?!?!?!
> 
> Sure Microsoft products have their place - in the hands of end users who
> are either too stupid or too lazy to sit down and try to learn something
> and/or RTFM's. These are just my personal feelings about Microsoft. I am
> not trying to say that you are stupid or anything. You probably have not
> had time to play with HTML much.
> 
> If you look at the source of the pages you created, the only part that
> appears to really require Frontpage is the hover buttons on the left of
> the first page. The coding of the pages could very easily be altered to
> have no references to Frontpage at all. HTML is very easy to learn,
> especially if you have Hot Dog Pro or some software like that which will
> create the code for you. Then you can look at the code it created and
> pick it up very quickly. I know this because a couple of years ago I set
> up a website without having any prior HTML knowledge.
> 
> Once again, I'm sorry if you took offense to any of these posts.
> 
> Aaron Norton
> Sprint
> Network Systems Management
> 
> Rich Minear wrote:
> >
> > Aaron,
> >
> > The server is not a Microsoft Server.....
> >
> > The web pages were done in Microsoft Frontpage..mostly because the guy who
> > did them (and he did a terrible job!!!) does not know HTML.
> >
> > Now normally, I would not dog someone like this....but it was me...so it
> is
> > ok...I'm an admin guy, not a programmer.
> >
> > The new web page...being done by the guys at kclinux.com and some
> > volunteers....will be very much non-microsoft.
> >
> > Rich Minear
> >
> > PS.  Remember...Microsoft Products have their place...and they are not bad
> > products....
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Aaron Norton [mailto:anorton98 at earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 2:05 PM
> > To: rminear at linuxstart.com
> > Subject: kclug - KCLUG?!?!?!
> >
> > I am new to this list and just found your website this morning.
> > I have been in the Kansas UNIX/Linux Users Association, off and
> > on for a while now and was always interested in finding something
> > closer to home since I live in KC.
> >
> > There is one thing that bothers me about KCLUG. When I went to
> > your website, I happened to notice that it was built with (and
> > I really hate to say this word) Microsoft.
> >
> > My question is this - what kind of Linux Users Group builds their
> > website using Microsoft Frontpage? I realize that not everyone is
> > against Micros??t as much as me, but this just does not make any
> > sense at all.
> >
> > You are supposedly supporting the Open Source Revolution, but
> > you are using the most closed companies products to achieve this
> > goal.
> >
> > For the sake of not crashing what is probably a microsoft server,
> > I will keep this short. If it is in fact not a microsoft server,
> > please accept my sincere appoligies for the previous statement.
> >
> > Let the flaming begin!!!
> >
> > Aaron Norton
> >

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