Brian, Thanks, I just put those up as a joke. If you look at the emails, the dates are indeterminate. I can either try to figure out where they belong, or just nuke them. Time to start on the content. If I haven't ticked off to many people I am willing to continue with that part, but I need a LOT more input, because as I have said before I am not very good at creating original material, but I am much better at editing/ modifiying/improving the work others have done. I have created a tarball now, and it is located at http://www.sound.net/~hald/kclug/kclug.tgz Hal Duston hald@sound.net Boring is good. A conformist in a nonconformist world.