From: raz@sleeper.apana.org.au (Roland Turner) Subject: Re: Do you want to see linux replace MSW? Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 03:16:58 GMT
pmacdona@sanjuan (Peter MacDonald) writes:
>In article <C8GDq0.1DA@sleeper.apana.org.au> raz@sleeper.apana.org.au (Roland Turner) writes:
>>dlj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DAVID L. JOHNSON) writes:
>>
>>>A little reality check here.
>>
>>An accurate reality check here:
>>
>>> MS-Win is not easy for the average schlemiel
>>>to set up.
>>
>>That's funny - a signifigant number of our customers (I run a branch
>>office for a PC manufacturer an perform a lot of the company's tech
>>support) have no difficulty at all installing MSWindows, in fact
>>no one has EVER called me and said "How do I install Windows?"
[sorry for quoting so much - the debate appears to be becoming semantic]
>He said "set up" not install.
Fine - "set up" is a subset of installation. In fact my remark suggests
that users can do mote than set up with ease, they can install as well.
This semantic idiocy aside, we were discussing the difficulty or
otherwise of turning a PC + Linux on whatever media into an operational
Linux system. This is no different to the MSW setup task - you need to
get the data in AND configure it.
>Oh really. Ever try to get a comms program to work. How about the
Yup. Piece of cake.
If you insist on using a DOS comms program, you are going to have
difficulty. If you use a Windows one, you aren't.
>windows term program.
Yup - using it RIGHT NOW! (In fact I'm running it under NT, but this is
beside the point.) It's one of these really difficult Windows things:
1. Double click on the "Terminal" icon. (The one with the phone.)
2. (First time use:) Double click on the name of the port to
which your modem is connected.
3. Strat talking to your modem.
Is this SO difficult? This requires NO Windows expertise, at all! (Yes,
it is a rather lmited terminal program - but that is irrelevant to the
current discussion.) What is it that you are driving at in mentioning this
progam? It appears to support my argument, not yours.
> Then there is the fun of trying to use
>a comms program and something else at the same time.
Not a problem. I have recently had a file transfer in progress (using
Telix,and yes, a little expertise is required to contruct a PIF for this,
but not if you use a Windows comms package instead) on one modem, an
incoming fax on the other (received by WinFaxPro) and been typing and
printing an invoice to a customer simultaneously.
What's the problem?
> Network drivers
>will drive you nuts.
What utter rubbish! As Novell Netware drivers are a piece of cake to
install (in fact installed automatically, unless you interfere), I assume
that you reffering to something else.
Perhaps if you gave specifics your statements might lose some of their
inherent falsehood.
> Then lets not even talk about using the DOS box
>in an window...
Hmm? I run Telix in a Window almost all of the time, and the invoicing I
mentioned above is done using Q&A for DOS - also in a Window, often
simultaneously.
What's the problem?
>Windows is not in this catagory. It receives unfair and unwarrented
>praise in the media. There is a reason that they call it CRASHDOWS.
For novice users, MSW is empowering. In that regard its praise is NOT
unwarranted.
Its stability is ANOTHER issue all together. My machine at work however
neccessarily runs around the clock (otherwise incoming faxes would
never be received) and hasn't crashed in weeks - and then only because
I did something particularly evil to it. Even if it crashes fortnightly,
I can live with that :-)
>I realize that perhaps the point of your post was to discuss how
>much easier the Linux installation could be made. And I don't
That was one of its two points.
>disagree with that point. However, me and the 100's of analysts
>I work with, take exception when someone perpetrates the myth of
>how great MS Windows is.
I take exception when someone perpetrates the myth of how great it
isn't. The only flaws with it that have been raised are:
1. Difficulty in introducing third party drivers.
Yes this is difficult, no, it isn't a Windows problem.
Some manufacturers DO have the decency to include
intelligent setup programs (eg The setup program with
the fusion16 CD-ROM kit), those that don't (el cheapo
Trident chipset based SVGAs spring to mind - no flame)
are responsible for the difficulties that they cause, not
Windows.
2. Difficulty in networking. /running DOS apps.
This is a DOS issue, not a Windows one.As long as MSW
runs under DOS, these problems will persist. When NT
works, it will cease to be an issue. (Although, NT
won't shrink to ordinary person scale for a while by
the look of it :-)) In the interim, look at MSW for
Workgroups. It's a piece of cake to install and
simple to maintain. Running DOS apps still requires
some expertise...
NEITHER of these relate to ease of setup/installation which IS what was
being discussed - by making it easier for 95% of potential Linux users
to get their boxes running, Linux's usefulness and penetration is
enhanced.
> In reality, it is little more than demo
>software. Fine for the dabbler, but hell-on-earth for the techy.
Garbage. It is a viable production environment and it is EASIER to
support than DOS!
--
Bye for now.
- Raz. (Roland Turner)
raz@sleeper.apana.org.au VK2ZRT Raz@3:712/413.1 (OH) 61 2 319 5700